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Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1

 Post subject: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:41 pm 
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Here is the latest incarnation of the Harlequin list. It is essentially the list that Elsmore and I worked on in 2009, tidied up and enhanced with some of the earlier details from Moscovian and Sotec. For those who are bored, here is the link to the earlier development thread. Because of the nature of the Harlequins, who appear as armies in their own right as well as allies of other Eldar forces (especially the Dark Eldar), this list is deliberately written both to allow the inclusion of allied Eldar formations and units, and to allow those lists to take some allied Harlequin formations.

Play testing, comments and suggestions welcome, especially on whether it is fun to play against.

Attachment:
NetEA Eldar harlequin 4.2.2.pdf [607 KiB]
Downloaded 170 times

Version 4.2.2 updated 29/09/2016
Following comments here and offline, I have made some corrections listed at the end of the document.
Updates:-
- Nomenclature revised to remove confusion over term ‘Harlequin’
- Unit details corrected for Mime, WraithLord, and Death Jester ‘fluff’ enhanced
- Troupe Leader gains Inspiring and Invulnerable save to bring in line with Master Mime
- Shadowseer becomes a character, gains Farsight and Infiltrate, loses RA, Speed, cost reduced to 50points and made available to Mimes
- Veil of Tears effect reduced to D3 non-Harlequin units
- Allies restricted to Biel Tan and Dark Eldar
- No titans in a Grand Masque, and air/space units must have an equivalent number of ground units


Last edited by Ginger on Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 4:59 pm 
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ha! well a pure 'Quin army should be doable while leaving the allies for friendly play. I'll give a looksies tonight

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 9:36 pm 
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this reads interessting, albeit very powerfull.

am i getting this correctly: you are allowed to mix eldar and dark eldar units in one build? without having to pay respect to the original army composition restrictions? e.g. backing harlequins up with just saim hann 6 strong aspects troupes without theit unlocking hosts is legit? or getting a mix of voidspinners, hornets and iyanden wraithshost together with harlequins into one build?

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:41 pm 
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LoL Not quite. ;)

If you take any allied Eldar formations,
- You may only use one Eldar list (or the Dark Eldar list), so you cannot cherry-pick from multiple lists.
- Formations taken from the 'allied' list must obey the constraints of that list.
- Transport units may be taken from the 'allied' list subject to the usual constraints.

So for example, if using Biel Tan as 'allies', the player must take at least one Warhost before he can take any support troupes including EoV (Storm Serpents) or SOV etc. There is no constraint on the number of Falcons / Wave Serpents taken to transport Harlequins, but you cannot take Raiders (in this example) if the allied formations are not Dark Eldar, nor mix DE and non-DE transport in the same army.

That said, you can take one or two Harlequin warhosts / troupes as 'allies' to your favourite Eldar army (subject to the Harlequin list constraints) where they become a form of 'uber' aspect formation. However they are less reliable; without a Harlequin leader on the table the Harlequin formations will disappear at the end of turn 3 or later (before assessing victory conditions), and can only contest objectives if the formation does not contain a leader.

The one area I am not quite sure about is the space / titan / air section. At present the Harlequin list deliberately allows a player to take aircraft etc from an 'allied' Eldar list without taking any ground formations from that list (much like Marines get access to Imperial Navy a/c). The problem is that it is not reasonable to limit the player to 1/3 of the points spent on the allied Eldar formations because that rapidly excludes the use of any Harlequins.


Last edited by Ginger on Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:46 pm 
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Looks very interesting, well up for testing. My first thought is that I'd never take an auarch again as being able to summon the great harlequin, even if only for a turn is a huge boost for any eldar army


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Wed Sep 07, 2016 10:53 pm 
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The Great Harlequin is the SC of the list. :)

Cegorach, the Avatar has a considerable influence on the battlefield but has to be placed where the Harlies expect to fight, and will disappear if there are no un-broken Harlequin formations nearby. Note, the Harlie formations are fairly brittle so fairly easy to break through BMs alone.
However if you buy upgrades, the number of activations rapidly diminishes, and the Harlies are vulnerable to long-range fire. . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 9:37 am 
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Hi - this looks interesting.

I think it might need some corrections & clarification. the stats in the unit descriptions of e.g. venom and writhlord don't match the summary. How does the veil of tears work against WE? things like that

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:36 am 
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Ok I know what any AC wants is people to play it and feedback. Unfortunately I can't play for a long while. But I can tell you my thoughtsat the outset based on 0 experience :) :) .

I looked at the list and of course I looked at Elsemore’s awesome epic harlequins on miniwars. Everyone should

I like that you’re keeping it to just a few formation types. I like the inclusion of small formations of harlequins, wraithlords and bikes.

But...

The characters are crazy. Of course they need to be in the list but they’re very unsubtle. Just loads of extra abilities and super killy attacks for lots of cost. I’m not sure if there’s a missed opportunity to represent them more subtley (given that this is epic and focussed on the formation not the individual) without necessarily needing the models representing them (although no harm if you do). The idea is that amidst the colour and noise of the troupe the characters appear for their performance and then disappear back into the mass. Something like each harlequin formation comes with some tokens (or, better still, small bespoke playing cards). One for each character. Allowing you to play one or (maybe more) each turn. Representing that character’s performance. Rather than crazy stats, the performance grants a special ability (seer) or enhances the attacks of one unit to the formation (DJ) etc. Perhaps the cards/tokens could have 2 alternative uses (a specific ability vs a general use e.g. removing a blast marker) creating something simple to understand but difficult to master. A game within a game. As the harlequin units die so too would you have to discard cards (maybe randomly or at your choice) restricting your options.

Anyway good luck :)

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 10:55 am 
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Thanks - will look into them again.

Note, because many years have passed since its inception, including the creation and approval of many other lists, the Harlequin list may not match people's expectations. So nothing is set in stone with this list.

The "Veil of Tears" is intended to represent the psychic abilities of the Shadowseer as they manipulate the minds of those nearby. Obviously they would be less successful against WE and their crew, not least because of the crew's background and training.
As a suggestion, perhaps the shadowseer's 'psychic attack' abilities could be applied like shooting hits, affecting D3 units or WE DC and choosing whether to attack the WE first? This would mean that WE of DC2 - DC3 would be a gamble, and obviously the shadowseer would not be able to stop the larger WE.

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 11:38 am 
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ffoley wrote:
The characters are crazy. Of course they need to be in the list but they’re very unsubtle. Just loads of extra abilities and super killy attacks for lots of cost. I’m not sure if there’s a missed opportunity to represent them more subtley (given that this is epic and focussed on the formation not the individual) without necessarily needing the models representing them (although no harm if you do). The idea is that amidst the colour and noise of the troupe the characters appear for their performance and then disappear back into the mass. Something like each harlequin formation comes with some tokens (or, better still, small bespoke playing cards). One for each character. Allowing you to play one or (maybe more) each turn. Representing that character’s performance. Rather than crazy stats, the performance grants a special ability (seer) or enhances the attacks of one unit to the formation (DJ) etc. Perhaps the cards/tokens could have 2 alternative uses (a specific ability vs a general use e.g. removing a blast marker) creating something simple to understand but difficult to master. A game within a game. As the harlequin units die so too would you have to discard cards (maybe randomly or at your choice) restricting your options.
I do agree that they are "unsubtle", though that does rather match their 40K descriptions. This strikes at the heart of the problem with the list, trying to represent detailed stuff within the much larger E:A canvas whilst keeping the result as much fun to play against as to play with. This is why there are a number of constraints on their use,
  • The player has to take leaders both to capture objectives and to keep the Harlies on the table to even contest stuff.
  • Their limited mobility, formation size and CC focus puts them in the same bracket as terminators; deadly in CC assaults but much less effective at distance and they are more vulnerable to shooting.
Any other thoughts or suggestions on how to improve the list are welcome.

However those are very interesting suggestions :)
Having some Harlequin character cast 'story' abilities around is very intriguing as a thematic addition to Cegorach - perhaps outside the tournament scenario? - where the Harlequin player secretly draws Cegorach's card at the start of the game, revealing these abilities when something happens within his influence . . . .


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Fri Sep 09, 2016 2:37 pm 
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Thanks Ffoley
Data sheets corrected and the list re-posted


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 12:28 am 
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The characters certainly are extreme. I actually lol'd when I read the profile of the solitaire. Then I saw the mimes.

For capturing objectives, is it the specific Leader character that is needed, or a leader (small L)?

So I can take an avatar and wraithgate from the biel tan list right, in addition to the laughing god and a free wraithgate from harlies?

These formations of harlequins are brittle, right? But with better armour than space marines?

Can we lose the weird seer rule? These "your special guy can't attack because my special guy has a special rule that means your special rules don't work" devices can be not fun to play against. I know you are worrying about the idea that a formation of harlies might not kill ALL of their enemies straight off the bat with first strike macro extra attack goodness but there should at least be some weaknesses - things they cannot take on alone.

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:23 am 
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Oh also wrt the laughing god, I get +1 if completely within 30, does the enemy also need to be completely within to get -1, or just partially?

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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 7:36 pm 
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Kyrt wrote:
The characters certainly are extreme. I actually lol'd when I read the profile of the solitaire. Then I saw the mimes.For capturing objectives, is it the specific Leader character that is needed, or a leader (small L)?So I can take an avatar and wraithgate from the biel tan list right, in addition to the laughing god and a free wraithgate from harlies?These formations of harlequins are brittle, right? But with better armour than space marines?Can we lose the weird seer rule? These "your special guy can't attack because my special guy has a special rule that means your special rules don't work" devices can be not fun
To answer your questions,
  1. A Harlequin formation must have a 'Leader' upgrade in order to capture Objectives (Great Harlequin, Troupe Leader, Master Mime)

  2. Good question / catch. Originally intended to be one Wraithgate per army - what are your thoughts, should we allow a pure Harlie army access to two ?
    (Personally I think probably not, though a canny opponent will spread objectives to minimise the impact of Wraithgates anyway).

  3. Yes they are better than 'standard' Marines, but have slightly weaker 'armour' than Termies, and basic formation is between the two.

  4. I seem to recollect the Shadowseer was questioned in the past, and agree that the particular special rule is a bit wonky. How about changing it to read:-
    Quote:
    The Shadowseer is the narrator of the troup. Using his psychic abilities he selects an audience from friends and allies alike to witness the performance. Those chosen to witness the mysterious Harlequin performance are thrice blessed
    • Chosen to witness the exquisite art and mystery of the Harlequin’s dance
    • Chosen to pass on the Harlequin’s sorrowfull message to a wider audience
    • Chosen to live while friends and colleagues suffer a myriad forms of death in the name of art.
    The nearest D3+1 non-Harlequin units to the Shadowseer (not WE) become the “audience” of the performance so do not take part in the combat. This is determined before any first strike attacks are rolled. They cannot fight, nor be targeted during the assault, and are only counted in the assault resolution if the Shadowseer has been killed during the assault.

    If you like this, the Shadowseer's EA+1 MW should be changed to FF, since he will be in CC with target units that have become invulnerable.
    Also the Great Harlequin represents Cegorach in the dance. When the formation he is part of is partially within 30cm of Cegorach, the Great Harlequin assumes the role of the Shadowseer/narator except he retains the SC reroll.

  5. Harlequin formations must be entirely within 30cm to gain the -1 to their initiative. However I suggest at the moment that enemy formations only need to be partially within his sphere of influence to be distracted and affected. After all this is the most mysterious and fascinating show in the multiverse . . .

Thoughts?


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 Post subject: Re: Harlequin Grand Masque V4.2.1
PostPosted: Sat Sep 10, 2016 9:18 pm 
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- OK maybe just mention those three characters by name then, to avoid the ambiguity about what a leader is.

- In general I suggest sorting out the nomenclature, since "Harlequin" seems to be used to mean several different things - the Harlequin unit, any unit with the Harlequin special rule, and formations in the Harlequin army list. For example I am unsure what the restrictions in this sentence mean:
"The Great Harlequin character may only be taken as the Supreme Commander of a Harlequins Grand Masque army, where the number of Harlequin formations is greater than other Eldar formations. You may add the Great Harlequin Character to
any Harlequin stand."
So do I need more Harlequin Troupes*, or more formations that contain units with the Harlequin ability (which is the same as saying more formations selected from the Harlequin list)? Likewise can the Great Harlequin go in a mime unit, which has the Harlequin ability in its datasheet? Or just a Harlequin unit?

* Of course by Harlequin Troupe above I mean the Troupe formation, which is a warhost and not a troupe, rather than the harlequin troupes, which do not contain harlequins and are actual troupes. Clear? No, didn't think so :) Basically I found the terminology quite perplexing.

- Likewise the "partially within" on the laughing god, best to be explicit in the list.

- does the +1 initiative for the laughing god apply to formations coming out of the webway (assuming the webway is within 30)? and i suppose the question is equally valid for the -1.

- I don't understand your point 5?

- Transport: so there can't be any spare spaces, which means I cannot take 3 wave serpents, it would have to be 2 serpents and a falcon? I guess you don't mean this since it would mean you could only ever take 2 barges of pleasure if you had taken an infantry upgrade like the solitaire? Maybe you mean to prevent taking extra empty transports?

- OK, the armour: why are they harder to kill when hit than a space marine, and macro weapons don't kill them etc? It just looks odd for the entire army to have 5+ reinforced and lots of invulnerable saves. A harlequin jetbike is twice as hard as an eldar jetbike? Really?

- The characters/upgrades are silly but of course very expensive. Not sure what's going on with the harlequins, how come they are are more expensive than the mimes? i get one is a host but it just seems backwards. likewise the troupe leader is the same price as the master mime, which is just all around much better.

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