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ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues

 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:38 am 
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Okay here are some things I need to clarify before I can edit them.

On pg 4 Under the description of how chain of command works

it says that "units that are outside the chain recieve no orders, may not move and fire in the Advance Fire phase."

I take it is should go more like

"May not move but may fire in the Advance Fire Phase."


Pg 14 Capitol Imperialis

"It can transport two full companies of any type including vehicle companies."


As that description stands you could carry 2 Hellbore companies inside. Therefore 1 Praetorian class is carrying 2 other praetorian class units inside. Is this okay?

pg 7 Commissar description

"Commissars attached to Mechanized companies will travel in one of the vehicles (you don't get free tanks)."

However for the Mech Assault, Mech and mole companies The Commissars are listed with their own vehicle. Which adds a Chimera or Termite depending on company. Company list or commissar description which should be the correct one?


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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 2:38 am 
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(OzTenaka @ Mar. 17 2007,21:38)
QUOTE
Okay here are some things I need to clarify before I can edit them.

On pg 4 Under the description of how chain of command works

it says that "units that are outside the chain recieve no orders, may not move and fire in the Advance Fire phase."

I take it is should go more like

"May not move but may fire in the Advance Fire Phase."


Pg 14 Capitol Imperialis

"It can transport two full companies of any type including vehicle companies."


As that description stands you could carry 2 Hellbore companies inside. Therefore 1 Praetorian class is carrying 2 other praetorian class units inside. Is this okay?

pg 7 Commissar description

"Commissars attached to Mechanized companies will travel in one of the vehicles (you don't get free tanks)."

However for the Mech Assault, Mech and mole companies The Commissars are listed with their own vehicle. Which adds a Chimera or Termite depending on company. Company list or commissar description which should be the correct one?

Hi!

I take it is should go more like

"May not move but may fire in the Advance Fire Phase."

Correct.

As that description stands you could carry 2 Hellbore companies inside. Therefore 1 Praetorian class is carrying 2 other praetorian class units inside. Is this okay?


Understood. The intent is that it can house two companies of foot and vehicles up to heavy vehicle size. No praetorians.


"Commissars attached to Mechanized companies will travel in one of the vehicles (you don't get free tanks)."

However for the Mech Assault, Mech and mole companies The Commissars are listed with their own vehicle. Which adds a Chimera or Termite depending on company. Company list or commissar description which should be the correct one?

I would add the additional vehicle as needed. It would defeat the purpose otherwise.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:11 am 
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The point is that the Commissar normally gets a Rhino. ?If he's attached to Roughies he gets to ride a pony instead, if he's attached to Bikes he gets a Harly, if he's attached to a Mechanised Infantry unit he gets a Chimera....all less than or roughly equivalent to the Rhino. ?If he's attached to a Shadow Sword company the Rhino doesn't get upgraded to a Shadow Sword.....but he should keep his Rhino. ?

It's actually quite clearly spelled out in the army card section, until you get to the Armor section....all these and subsequent companies don't appear to get a Commissar. ?I don't mind this at all really. ?Just say 'A Commissar may be included with a Company. ?In that case the Commissar gets the mode of transport as specified in the army card. ?Armor, Artillery and Airborne companies don't have an attached Commissar." ?.......and all abiguity is removed.

Alternatively, just change the wording so that if attached to a company with anything more potent than a Chimera he keeps his Rhino.





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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:38 am 
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OK, now some other issues. ?The IG have been given 3 new units with direct fire weapons of 100cms range.....seems a little excessive.

LR Vanquisher - I don't have a massive problem with this. ?It gets the usual sort of IG accuracy and moderate modifier.
Destroyer Tank-Hunter - WTH! ?100cm range, hits on a 4+ and gets -3TSM and you get 3 of them for 200 points. ?This is game breakingly over-powered.....surely the range is meant to be 75cms. ?Failing that, make them 350 points and double VPs to the opponent (as per the fluff).
Medusa - If anything, this is worse than the Destroyer. ?100cms, 4+ to hit, -3TSM...and -6 against structures...and you get 3 for 200 points!!!! ?This is a simple one to fix though....change the 4+ to 2BP. ?Still massively powerful, but a single shot from the whole detachment makes it far more realistic.





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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 6:43 am 
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Next one is Vindicators.  They are 150 points for a detachment in the Space Marine book, yet they are 200 in the IG book despite a lower Morale.  I think the lower number is correct....there's no way a Vindicator company is equal to a Predator Company and better than a Leman Russ Company.  I'd suggest the support card drops to 150 and the Company to 450....which is what they were in SM2 days IIRC.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 7:53 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,07:38)
QUOTE
Medusa - If anything, this is worse than the Destroyer.  100cms, 4+ to hit, -3TSM...and -6 against structures...and you get 3 for 200 points!!!!  This is a simple one to fix though....change the 4+ to 2BP.  Still massively powerful, but a single shot from the whole detachment makes it far more realistic.

Medusa should IMO have a shorter range, 75cm or so.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 9:48 am 
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Should have these two from the documents I sent over but here they are anyway -

Airbourne troops should be independent..

Hydra needs to be introduced in both forms (platform and mechanised) but probably needs working on their range and rate of fire as it's very high currently..

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 10:44 am 
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(Enderel @ Mar. 19 2007,10:48)
QUOTE
Hydra needs to be introduced in both forms (platform and mechanised) but probably needs working on their range and rate of fire as it's very high currently..

As it should be. It has _four_ autocannons after all.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 1:53 pm 
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The Hydra is in the old official Errata.  Owen will have it already.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 3:03 pm 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Mar. 19 2007,09:44)
QUOTE

(Enderel @ Mar. 19 2007,10:48)
QUOTE
Hydra needs to be introduced in both forms (platform and mechanised) but probably needs working on their range and rate of fire as it's very high currently..

As it should be. It has _four_ autocannons after all.

I think there was a worry that it was slightly to good for it's price compared to other AA weapons..

Personally I love them and have got both versions..

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Mon Mar 19, 2007 5:20 pm 
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(Mojarn Piett @ Mar. 19 2007,01:53)
QUOTE

(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,07:38)
QUOTE
Medusa - If anything, this is worse than the Destroyer. ?100cms, 4+ to hit, -3TSM...and -6 against structures...and you get 3 for 200 points!!!! ?This is a simple one to fix though....change the 4+ to 2BP. ?Still massively powerful, but a single shot from the whole detachment makes it far more realistic.

Medusa should IMO have a shorter range, 75cm or so.

I concur.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 12:37 am 
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Compare the Hydra to the Skyray....now there's a unit that's a little too good.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:49 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,00:11)
QUOTE
The point is that the Commissar normally gets a Rhino.  If he's attached to Roughies he gets to ride a pony instead, if he's attached to Bikes he gets a Harly, if he's attached to a Mechanised Infantry unit he gets a Chimera....all less than or roughly equivalent to the Rhino.  If he's attached to a Shadow Sword company the Rhino doesn't get upgraded to a Shadow Sword.....but he should keep his Rhino.  

It's actually quite clearly spelled out in the army card section, until you get to the Armor section....all these and subsequent companies don't appear to get a Commissar.  I don't mind this at all really.  Just say 'A Commissar may be included with a Company.  In that case the Commissar gets the mode of transport as specified in the army card.  Armor, Artillery and Airborne companies don't have an attached Commissar."  .......and all abiguity is removed.

Alternatively, just change the wording so that if attached to a company with anything more potent than a Chimera he keeps his Rhino.

Hi!

I can live with this approach, it does seem to address any unforeseen balance issues.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:52 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,00:38)
QUOTE
OK, now some other issues.  The IG have been given 3 new units with direct fire weapons of 100cms range.....seems a little excessive.

LR Vanquisher - I don't have a massive problem with this.  It gets the usual sort of IG accuracy and moderate modifier.
Destroyer Tank-Hunter - WTH!  100cm range, hits on a 4+ and gets -3TSM and you get 3 of them for 200 points.  This is game breakingly over-powered.....surely the range is meant to be 75cms.  Failing that, make them 350 points and double VPs to the opponent (as per the fluff).
Medusa - If anything, this is worse than the Destroyer.  100cms, 4+ to hit, -3TSM...and -6 against structures...and you get 3 for 200 points!!!!  This is a simple one to fix though....change the 4+ to 2BP.  Still massively powerful, but a single shot from the whole detachment makes it far more realistic.

Hi!

I believe there was an aim to standardize weapon ranges giving similar ranges to similar weapons.

I agree though that either a range decrease or a point increase is in order.

I'm more of  fan of increasing the points cost than lowering stats.

Whats your preference.

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 Post subject: ADEPTUS MILITARIS LIST Rules Issues
PostPosted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 1:55 am 
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(zap123 @ Mar. 19 2007,00:43)
QUOTE
Next one is Vindicators.  They are 150 points for a detachment in the Space Marine book, yet they are 200 in the IG book despite a lower Morale.  I think the lower number is correct....there's no way a Vindicator company is equal to a Predator Company and better than a Leman Russ Company.  I'd suggest the support card drops to 150 and the Company to 450....which is what they were in SM2 days IIRC.

Hi!

This is an old one we have been dragging for quite a while.

Heck some have espoused that vindicators should be dropped from the IG list altogether.

Since Netepic strives to NEVER make peoples armies obsolete or redundant, they have been kept.

SO yes, drop the points cost.

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