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Tau Leaders

 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:27 pm 
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After reading over some battle reports, it seems that there may not be enough leaders in a battleforce to remove blast markers.

I read through the TO&Es in IA3, and assuming the examples given are typical, it looks something like:

5 Battlesuit Cadres (w/ 6 Shas'el)
Broadside Contingent w/ Broadsides
4 FW Cadres
4 Pathfinder Contingents
3 HHead Contingents
Tetra Contingent w/ Tetras
2 Heavy Drone Contingents
6 Drone Contingents

plus 2 Manta
4 Tigershark
3 Baracuda dets

IMO, it'd be better if the Shas'el (and Shas'o) was a full stand, not a character upgrade.  I propose the following stats for the Shas'el + 2 Shas'vre (never mind that's not what I field in 40k)
INF 25cm 3+sv 5+cc 5+ff
TL Missile pods 45cm AP4+/AT4+
Commander Plasma rifle 30cm AP3+
TL Fusion Blasters 15cm MW4+ and Small arms Macro-weapon
Notes:  Tau Jet Pack, Invulnerable Save, Co-fire, Leader

What do you think?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 4:58 pm 
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Would you limit leader only to Inf./Broadside formations, or do you have something with Vehicles in your mind too?
But answering your question - yes , a leader boost would be fine, although I fared well without them until now.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 5:55 pm 
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Two of the 6 Hunter Cadres I used as an example only have the Shas'el+2xShas'vre as the only Crisis suits.  The rest are all Pathfinders, Fire Warriors, and Piranha/Tetra packs.

I hadn't considered adding a Shas'el to a vehicle (Shas'o would either be in a Crisis suit or on the Dragonfish), but it may be worth considering.  It'd need a different statline than what's currently in the list, though.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:20 pm 
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Yes, I thought of doing something similar to the Comissars in the IG, but with a points cost. Although that might be getting to much Imperial Flavour in it?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 6:29 pm 
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I'd just as soon avoid adding Tau 'commissars' if we could.

I think that a HQ stand added to any infantry would be most in keeping with what's established so far (barring major changes appearing in Codex:  Tau Empire, which I expect to see as early as March or April).  Vehicle HQs (while probable IRL) just don't seem likely for the Tau.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:19 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (17:29))
Vehicle HQs (while probable IRL) just don't seem likely for the Tau.

Don't they? As I've argued previously, there must be some organization over the level of Cadre. At some point, a staff system becomes inevitable. That's when you get command vehicles. The Dragonfish seems to fit this concept well.


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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:29 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (18:29))
I'd just as soon avoid adding Tau 'commissars' if we could.

I think that a HQ stand added to any infantry would be most in keeping with what's established so far (barring major changes appearing in Codex: ?Tau Empire, which I expect to see as early as March or April). ?Vehicle HQs (while probable IRL) just don't seem likely for the Tau.

I didn?t mean exactly Comissars - but like they are avaiable for the IG - as far as I know they are primarily used for adding Inspiring to the formation - ours could get Leader only and that?s it.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 7:32 pm 
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Quote (asaura @ 01 Dec. 2005 (19:19))
Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (17:29))
Vehicle HQs (while probable IRL) just don't seem likely for the Tau.

Don't they? As I've argued previously, there must be some organization over the level of Cadre. At some point, a staff system becomes inevitable. That's when you get command vehicles. The Dragonfish seems to fit this concept well.

Yes , in fact the DF does, but is fortunately a Supreme Commander and a Super Heavie?. So I would like to know if a normal Cadre or a Contingent as well, formed solely out of HH could get a leader. Someone proposed the Swordfish, it is the most deadly of them ,so why not?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:04 pm 
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It's definitely a possibility (especially if we take the Tau to the level of the current US Army), but I was concentrating on the infantry side of the house.  There wasn't any example Hammerhead company to extrapolate from, the tanks were always in support of the FW (probably a side effect of being written from a 40k perspecive, the forces are very close to a full Standard Mission Force Org Chart, if a little over in some cases)

Adding a Leader to a Hammerhead (or maybe a Swordfish) could work a little too well.  Would every Swordfish be the Command Tank, or just one?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:11 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (21:04))
It's definitely a possibility (especially if we take the Tau to the level of the current US Army), but I was concentrating on the infantry side of the house. ?There wasn't any example Hammerhead company to extrapolate from, the tanks were always in support of the FW (probably a side effect of being written from a 40k perspecive, the forces are very close to a full Standard Mission Force Org Chart, if a little over in some cases)

Adding a Leader to a Hammerhead (or maybe a Swordfish) could work a little too well. ?Would every Swordfish be the Command Tank, or just one?

If and then only one. So you would have to purchase at least one Swordfish upgrade to get a Leader in a HH formation.

If a Leader in an AV formation isn?t viable, how about giving the already existing Command Characters a maximum range of 15 to 30cm in which the Leader Funktion would work?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:30 pm 
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Well, Guard and Marines can have vehicle-mounted Leaders, so it's not too much of a stretch.  I think that Orks and Eldar can, too.  

Command Swordfish as Swordfish, with Leader and Coordinated Fire at +25 points?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:32 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (21:30))
Well, Guard and Marines can have vehicle-mounted Leaders, so it's not too much of a stretch. ?I think that Orks and Eldar can, too. ?

Command Swordfish as Swordfish, with Leader and Coordinated Fire at +25 points?

Maybe Coordinated Fire would be too much, as the Dragonfish might drown in its function with a Shas?o only to do the re-roll, but else, why not?

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:38 pm 
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Well, a Shas'el in a suit can do it, why not a Shas'el in a Swordfish?  May require an 'up' to the Dragonfish, to make it (Dragonfish) more attractive, though.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 9:51 pm 
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Quote (Lion in the Stars @ 01 Dec. 2005 (21:38))
Well, a Shas'el in a suit can do it, why not a Shas'el in a Swordfish? ?May require an 'up' to the Dragonfish, to make it (Dragonfish) more attractive, though.

The question will be : Do we want every HH or even every AV beeing able to call a CF Attack? If only the HH and "upping" the DF then ,yes, I would like it this way.

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 Post subject: Tau Leaders
PostPosted: Thu Dec 01, 2005 10:07 pm 
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I must admit that I am not really keen on the idea of vehicle leaders (aside from the obvious!). The battlesuits are badges of honour, and I dont think that the leaders would put it aside to lead from a vehicle.

I dont necessarily object to being able to add Crisis suits to a Hammerhead Cadre and then upgrading one Crisis unit to the leader. This was 'overlooked' in version 4.3.1 but will be added in v4.3.2 as an option, and should go most of the way to allowing the tank formations to remove blast markers easier.

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