Hi everyone, and thanks for trusting me with the Scions of Iron!
OK, after some initial discussions it's back to the drawing board. I have tried to accomplish similar results as in my original proposal but with a lot less changes, and also less downplay of the pure tank formations. Some of the less popular changes are still in there, like smaller Predator formations, but I think they are necessary for list balance.
High level changes:
* Split formations into core/support
* Terminators deploy in Crusaders
* All air crafts moved to 1/3 section
* Predator formations cannot add extra Predators
* 25 points price reduction on Tactical and Heavy Tactical formations
You can download the Scions of Iron 2.1 draft from my dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/93jidm9fgipcxx1/Scions_of_Iron_2.1.html?dl=1Let the discussions continue...
All the stuff below is history
Over the last weeks I have played a lot of games with the Scions of Iron online and I also brought them to a local tournament. After giving it a lot of thought and discussing back and forth with my regular Epic opponents I now have a first draft of how I would like to see Scions of Iron 2.0. I have also read up on the backstory and tried to stay true to the original idea for the chapter.
I want to focus the Scions of Iron even more to be a combined arms mechanized infantry force to further distinguish them from other chapters. I want the core units to have flexibility to do more than one thing and to it reasonably well. I want to move them away slightly from having large tank formations, and instead incorporate those tanks into mechanized infantry formations. To achieve this there are several areas where I want to make changes. I have tried to limit the changes to army structure, formation composition, upgrade options, etc. instead of bringing in new units. As this is an approved army, going in to this task I didn't want to make too many changes at once... but I have failed that goal already from the first draft
I realize these changes might require a full round of play-testing, but I'm hoping it will be worth the effort.
Another goal has been to find good use for the more uncommon Space Marine units (Destructors, Vindicators, and to some extent Land Raiders and Razorbacks) and make them fit in the army. Hopefully some dusty models can get to see some action in the Scions of Iron list in the future.
A major weakness I see with the list, which is also important to keep in mind when reading the army list, is low activation count. Most formations are more expensive than their Codex Astartes counterparts. Also a lot of the inexpensive Marine formations are not available in the Scions of Iron list. Some of the upgrade options might seem very powerful in theory, and if they can be exploited in some way that would of course need to be fixed. But please prove your point by e.g. designing an army taking advantage of this exploit and explain why your army is overpowered (or even better, try it in a game and make a battle report), instead of having a theoretical discussion only focused on the cost of a specific upgrade option.
You can download the Scions of Iron 2.0 draft from my dropbox:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/t2qrmfaflrcc9i1/Scions_of_Iron_2.0.html?dl=1Happy for all the feedback I can get, even better if it comes from a battle-report!
Significant changes in 2.0I have split the detachments into core and support with two support per core choice. Land Raiders and Predators have lost their upgrades to add extra tanks, to focus on combined arms formations instead of large armor formations. All air transports have been moved to the 1/3 restricted section since I don't want the army to be pure air assault. Here they will also compete with the popular Warhounds and Thunderbolts to really make air transports a choice you have to consider carefully. Below is a summary of changes to formations and units compared to the approved list:
Alignment with other Space Marine lists* Add the "two Vindicators for 75 points" option
* Change the points for Land Raider upgrades to one for 75, two for 125 (incorporated in formation/upgrade prices)
* Add AA5+ to Thunderhawk SB 2× Twin Heavy Bolter to align Thunderhawk stats, same fix needed for Imperial Fists
Structure* Thunderhawk Transporters to 1/3 section
* Landingcraft to 1/3 section
* Introduce Core and Support choices (2 support per core)
- Core: Tacticals & Terminators
- Support: Bikes, Heavy Scouts, Land Raiders, Predators, Scouts, Strike Cruiser & Whirlwinds
Unit changes* Add weapon option to Land Raider Helios (Whirlwind or Hyperios Launcher)
* Thunderhawk Transporters, changed weapons loadout to reduce defensive flack
* Thunderhawk SB, added AA to FxF Heavy Bolters
* Added Techmarine character (same stats as Imperial Fist)
Formation changes* Bikes
- Add two Predator Destructors to the formation at slight discount, cost to 250 points
- Removed Land Speeder option
- Removed Attack Bike option
* Heavy Tacticals
- Merged with tacticals (removed)
* Helios
- Formation removed, moved to Land Raider upgrade
* Heavy Scouts
- New formation based on the Codex Astartes Scout formation
- Comes with two Vindicators and two Rhinos with equipped with dozer blades (-5cm move, walker)
- Option to buy extra Vindicators (at which point they can no longer garrison)
* Land Raiders
- Removed option to by extra Land Raiders
- Helios upgrade
- Put back option to add Vindicators (as in the Codex Astartes list)
* Landing Craft
- Moved to Scions of Iron Aircraft Formations section
* Predators
- Removed Destructor option, Destructors only available as infantry support
- Remove option to buy extra Predators
* Scouts
- Deploys in Razorbacks at a slight discount (225 points)
- Removed Land Speeders and Snipers upgrades
* Tacticals
- Removed Vindicators from the choice of Armour
- Formation can upgrade its transports (several Razorback and Land Raider options)
- Removed option to add extra Predators (Vindicators still available)
- Added 0-1 Techmarine character option per army
* Terminators
- Removed teleport option
- Deployed in Land Raider Crusaders
- Price compensation for the loss of flexibility
* Thunderhawk Transporters
- Moved to Scions of Iron Aircraft Formations section
- Can only add one extra Transporter
* Vindicator
- Removed formation, only available as infantry support and upgrade
Upgrade changes* Armour - Renamed to Vindicators, and removed option to add Predators
* Commander - Put back standard Space Marine Supreme Commander character, added option to give one Land Raider Prometheus Commander or Supreme Commander
* Land Raiders - Removed
* Land Speeders - Removed
* Razorbacks - Removed
* Snipers - Removed
* Thunderhawk Transporters - Restricted to one extra
* Helios - Added as an upgrade to Land Raider formations, 25 points per Helios
* Hunter - Renamed to Air-defence and an option to add an AA Land Raider Helios was added
* Techmarine - New character option for Tactical formations
* Terminators - New option to increase the size of the Terminator formation
* Transports - New transport options for Tactical formations
And possibly a few more I forgot to mention...
_________________
Army Champion - Scions of Iron &
Iron Hands