Okay, with some limited feedback I'm putting out the 1.4 Thurgrimm's Stronghold.

Changes:
The Land Train has taken on some major revisions to price and armament. It is arguably the last piece in the puzzle that needed major changes. The list may (probably?) need some tweaking, but it feels like it is settling into its own. I brought the maximum number of cars to 4 so that we don't end up with the artillery train of death (yet).

The Cyclops shows a change to it's missiles and a small downgrade on its shield. This was Tiny Tim's suggestion and I felt it worth trying.

Robots were changed to AVs. Discussed to death.

Scout ability was added to the Hawks, so you will see the Iron Eagles 'missing'. They really aren't. The Iron Hawks are upgradeable to Iron Eagles. Yes, this will mean a small price bump and you can't get formations of five anymore, however the Iron Eagles were always on the cusp of too good, so I don't think this will be a killer for them.

The Thunderfires I bumped 25 points. I don't know if this is the right move, but we'll see.

There were other small adjustments, but its fair to say that the best thing to do is move forward, give it some playtests, and let me know how it goes.

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Thanks for your work on this list. With the latest tournament out of the way I think that I'll get a game in with my Squats on Friday.

I think that the change in the Overlord Designator to 15cm is going to have the biggest impact for my War Engines over any other change.

I like the change in the cost of the Termites - but could we consider that when abandoned they only provide cover to infantry rather than become ruins. I can see potential abuse with blocking lines of sight.

Egads! No, that is a formatting screw-up. TacCom only showed 1 download so I've gone back and returned the value to 75cm on that. Tiny-Tim, thanks for the catch!

As for the termites, lets see what happens. The models just aren't that big and I can't imagine an infantry stand being able to completely hide behind one.

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As "ruins", they would have infinite height in some gaming groups?

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Perhaps, but if it is 1.5cm long, how is a 2.5cm stand going to hide behind it?

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Hmm, I think this calls for a WAAC player with a camera to step forward to try and prove this in a real game, step forward... err... me

If it turns out to be a problem, I'll redesignate it as something else. Not sure what, but there can always be a 1.4.1 list or whatever. There's plenty of numbers left.

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Question: I have a spare 100pts in my latest army, can I add Rapiers (4 for +100pts) and get transports for them? I'm specifically thinking about mounting in Rhinos, but this could also go with Termites, Moles, Hellbore. I note that the Leviathan can not take them.

(Of course I can remember the time when they, in Rogue Trader, could be pulled along by a Rhino.)

Forget that, just realised that they don't have the 'plus transport' addition to them.

Ya know, I was thinking about having them towed by Rhinos, but it just seemed too fiddly. Would they be considered for cover? Would they have to take a save if the Rhino got destroyed? Yada yada yada.

You can put them in a Leviathan though! I just checked, it's on there. Honestly, I think Hellbores should be able to transport them as well as bikes and trikes. They're HUGE.

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Too true, I've opted for more Warriors in this game as I don't want to lose the mobility of my Rhinos and they create a good sized BTS. It's a 3k game so I think that I'll try four Overlords again and they are going to be my AA cover as I'm not going for any static of slow moving forces without transport.

Let me know if the modified fire arcs pose a problem. I don't imagine it will, but you never know.

You could alternatively go for a Warlord upgrade. He's got 4+ RA, commander, leader, and a Rhino to put his feet up in. That leaves you 25 points to upgrade your Berserkers.

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I always upgrade my Berserkers.

Tonight’s list for testing:

1. Berserkers + Extra Berserkers & Termites
2. Berserkers + Extra Berserkers & Termites
3. Warriors + Extra Warriors & Rhinos
4. Warriors + Rhinos
5. Iron Hawk Squadron
6. Iron Hawk Squadron
7. Guild Out Riders + Grand Warlord
8. Guild Out Riders
9. Overlord
10. Overlord
11. Overlord
12. Overlord
I like symmetry in my lists

I hope you provide a report on this list.

What is your tactics when using this list?

I like the overlord and have had luck with using them, but I think it was just luck. They are fairly easy to destroy compared to some of our WE, you must use terrain and pop-up attacks?

Good hunting

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Thanks, I'm looking to steadily sweep forward with formations jumping ahead of each other and have the Berserkers pop up around the blitz on turn 3 to try and prove the above comments on the termites.

Overlords are great until you face Shadowswords/Pylons etc.

And you can't use Overlords for pop up attacks since they are support craft and always popped up. They are floating targets and your only hope is to destroy long range killers before they get to you (or that a tastier target is present someplace else).

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