I am not happy with sending out updates so quickly, but there were so many things that needed fixing on the 1.31 list that IMO the 1.32 list is warranted.

1. The transport was added to the Warlord.

2. The description of the Living Ancestor's Wisdom special rule has been returned.

3. The Overlord AA shot was left off by accident in 1.31 and has been returned in 1.32.

4. The CC and FF are NOT 3+ for the Colossus and Cyclops. Fixed.

Also...
5. I am taking some advice about the Trikes that multiple players brought up. I am allowing up to three Bikes per formation to be changed to Trikes at no cost. I fixed the number at 3 because it is roughly half of the seven bikes, and I didn't want to field questions about what is half the bikes (3 or 4).

6. Overlords formations. The original intent was for the Overlords to be fielded in formations up to three strong. When I equipped them with 8BP one-shots, that became an impossibility because then you could technically drop 24BP in one go and take things right off the chart. Now with the bombs fixed at 2 BP per Overlord, I can safely bring the formation back to a 1-3.

7. Overlords pricing. The formation change above inspired me to change the pricing to 250 for the first Overlord and 225 for each subsequent Overlord. The price is somewhere between those two points, and it seems like a reasonable way to set the formation, with a small discount as you go up.

I understand the rapid fire updates are annoying, but I figured the damage to be done by a lousy list is worse than the constant updates. I'll try to be more careful in the future.

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Cool, Thanks for the quick update it means that I don't have to have a sheet with lots of changes marked up on it. Pity about the CC & FF being wrong for the Colossus and Cyclops, it made them awesome.

Hmm that overlord has a lot of guns!?
Anyway keep updates coming Mosc, I'll get my stunties painted up yet...

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WYSIWYG. The Overlord is equipped with six battlecannons and four autocannons and a bomb rack. The unit is surprisingly balanced IMO.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Out of curiosity, have the Tarantulas been competitive at their current price? They seem expensive, but I may be missing something.

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The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

I think they are too expensive to be honest, but I haven't played them enough to determine by how much. The robots might be too expensive as well, however for both formations the autonom makes them a bit harder to peg their value. They aren't fearless but they are stronger than regular units.

I really want to get them correct, however, since the Trade Consortium list will rely heavily on autonom units.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Could eyeball it as roughly equivalent to ATSKNF. Looking at them, even with Autonom, I'd go with something more like 150.

Are they supposed to be INF or LV (the Compendium has the former)?

And FYI, Forge World's most recent version of the Rapier has the convenient option for a quad heavy bolter (and a Thudd Gun), thus neatly amalgamating all the units into one. I think this will make dealing with the various support weapons remarkably easier in many ways.

I've been pondering their place in the AoS, if it isn't obvious from the direction of questioning.

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Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Ignore the compendium. The Tarantulas and Robots should be LVs. I was thinking about making them AVs with the walker ability, but the size on both struck me as not quite making the mark.

What stats were you considering for Rapiers? And while we are at it... What is your opinion on transportation of the Rapiers? And Mole Mortars for that matter? They are infantry, but clearly their size seems to make fitting in a Rhino an impossibility. Somebody suggested that the Rhinos could tow the Rapiers...

I've got to consider their transportation for the Leviathan, Hellbores, and Moles too.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

On the question of transporting deployable weaponry, there are several thoughts

Possibly they could be declared 'deployable' meaning that they take a move to set up or pack up. So if they start in 'transport mode' they could double allowing a single move forward, set up and fire. If they want to redeploy this would require a march move to pack up, move and set up.

Alternatively pay a small upgrade for vehicles to make them mobile like siegies

Or make them an upgrade to a mobile formation, on the assumption that the relevant trailers etc are provided.

The main problem with this kind of formation lies in how it should be used, typically static in a critical position, but being small enough to be transportable given the correct vehicles etc. Consequently there are difficulties with all of the above, though paying for a vehicle could be simplest.

i think the mole mortar should be transportable in a Rhino - 1 rhino per mortar stand...sure it gets pricey but if u want mobile light arty then there has to be a price....

why i said a rhino could carry one is that there is a variant of the M113 APC that is the M106 mortar carrier...carries a 107mm mortar that can be fired from the vehicle...i think a mole mortar could be carried in a modified rhino transport and the crew can pack/unpack similar to Ginger's first suggestion about making them 'deployable'...

only reason i would be reticent to allow the mole mortar to fire from a vehicle is that it changes the unit as a whole - no longer would be be a field arty unit that u could motorize but a proper mechanized unit...but then again mechanized mole mortars is kinda interesting...

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I've been pondering them for the Heresy list right now.

Type: Forge World's Rapiers have an infantry statline, and the Baran Rapiers are INF. I think INF's justifiable on that basis.

Save: The 40K Rapier has a 3+ save, as does its crew. I'd go with a 4+ save for Marines. Squat Rapiers have to make the choice between whether it should be "crew save" or if a tough Rapier makes its crew tougher. I'd go with crew save (so 6+).

CC: Should be poor. 6+ is probably best for Marines, and I might even go with nil for Squats. The Heavy Bolter Rapier could probably justify 6+ even where the others have none.

FF: Probably should vary depending on the weapons fit. The Baran Rapier has 5+. That seems a good basis. Baran Thudd Guns are also 5+ - fair enough. That leaves the Heavy Bolter Rapier - 4+ seems justifiable.

Weapons: I'd just use the Baran stats. For the quad heavy bolter...AP3+, 30cm. Powerful, but not completely ridiculous, and gives each a role - the Thudd Gun's long-range anti-personnel, the Rapier is anti-tank, and the Heavy Bolter is useful as a support weapon.



Rapiers...I'd go with "counts as two" in a Rhino. Or just leave them untransportable - I like them better as less-mobile assets. You could also claim that their INF speed IS abstracted transport.

Same reasoning would seem to apply to Mole Mortars, except they're smaller (in some depictions. Some are massive). The small ones could even justify fitting two per Rhino, IMO. If you're concerned with the massive ones...make them more powerful. The Space Marine era ones had double the range of the Thudd Gun. That sort of range doesn't NEED transport.



Rapiers don't strike me as particularly towable.

I wouldn't let Rapiers into tunnellers - most of them seem like you have to climb out. Leviathans...dunno.

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The Apocrypha of Skaros 1.1
Rogue Trader Expedition 0.4
The Horus Heresy 0.5
Night Lords 0.1
My Trade Thread

Good evening gentlemen !

Glad to see that the squad section is that alive. appreciate this .
Would like to thank the guys who do the work . Therefore no problem in case changes and updates are posted more often than expected. balancing aint easy, ask ten guys for their point of view and you will get al least eleven different ones

However my ten cents...according to the little ones i felt in love with in october last year.
meantime i have been using three diffrent versions of the list. having a look towoards the new changes.

Living Ancestor's ; I like theaddition " leader" . I gonne give it a try, without this i have not used him once.
Overlord; aa is back yeah...but i still prefere the 8 one shot bombs to the 2 (permantent) bombs .
Got the argument that 24 bombs (hell yeah--kind of orbital ) is a bit too much..what about 3 permanent ones ? In my games I tend to use the long range cannons anyway...
I like the idea of the big formation; 18 shots and 12 shots and 6 Bombs ...brumms ...
My classic 3k list is gone right now. Used to take goliath, cyclops and one overlord, exactly 1000 Points. Not possible any longer ...
cyclops; i love the modell and the hellfury CC3+ and FF 3+ seems to be too much , ...but to reduce it to the cc of 5+ and ff 4+ is a big step . what about cc5+ ff3+ or cc 4+ ff4+
same for leviathan and colossus.

greetings nafets

Thanks for the feedback all.

Frosthammer/Ginger/SK,
Good thoughts on the transports from all. My initial thought is to have Mole Mortars allowed, 1 per Rhino (which will include their personnel). I can see them being broken down and Squats don't take up all that much room. Even though it will have zero impact on this list (Mole Mortars have no transport option) I need to think beyond the Thurgrimm's list.

The Rapier transport is trickier, but I believe the right thing to do is to NOT allow them to be transported in non-WEs. I believe the Hellbore and Leviathan should be exceptions because their size on the board is not representative of how massive these units truly are. As such their transporting in those beasts should be good to go. I believe I am going to leave the rest of their stats from the 1.32 list alone for now. With the exception of the weapon, those stats match what SK suggested.

Nafets,

Thanks for the posting. FYI the change of the CC and FF for the Cyclops and Colossus were errors; they were never intended nor discussed, so all I am doing is changing them back to what they were intended to be. A FF4+ is still an excellent number and given that War Engines can choose to use their FF value in an assault it seems like the best way to go. The only time it is going to hurt is if the WE gets assaulted and every unit gets in BtB contact with it.

The AA on the Overlord was also a simple mistake on my part. It never went away - I just screwed up and left it off the sheet. I didn't even notice those mistakes until Tiny-Tim said something.

I feel your pain on the Goliath/Cyclops/Overlord combo, but it needed to be done. The Overlord needed the price bump, even if it was a slight one. It solves a lot of problems for the list, as does the change to a regular BP shot. IMO this will encourage a different style of play, especially when you can get a 25 point discount on the second Overlord to go with the 4BP bomb drop you'll be able to perform.

You can always bring a Colossus or Leviathan to get something of that magical combo back. Heck, many players say the Colossus is a better choice anyway.

Keep the comments coming and the games flowing.

_________________
author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Bit late to the party but regarding Rapiers, they're mobile support weapons (the blasted thing has tracks!). I don't think it should be fast but it should be self propelled. Therefore I don't really see them needing to be towed though I agree WE transport makes sense. The weapon is somewhat similar to something between a Pak28 and say a Marder 3.

edit: I know that they're already stat'ed, for Marines at least, as 10cm. I just saying that they're use doesn't make sense as a towed vehicle but as air mobile support, garrison duty, and other defensive situations. It's simply not a rapid offense weapon.

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just a quick clarification...i am gonna be testing the list for the first time in a couple of weeks and i was just wondering about something...when u add the Warlord to a Warrior Brotherhood is it an extra stand? I ask this as it states he comes with his own transport...now i am used to the idea of upgrading one of my stands to include a character (usually with my vanilla marines) but the fact it notes the Warlord comes with his own transport seems to indicate to me that he is an extra stand + transport to be attached to the warrior brotherhood formation....have i got this completely wrong?

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