Fan sculpting |
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Vitamins
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Post subject: Fan sculpting  Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 4:35 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:13 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Orange County, California
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What are the legal ramifications of fans getting together and sculpting models that wont be released for a long time and distributing them on the internet? What about charging for them? or simply charging for shipping and the cost of supplies?
Im asking because intellectual property would be at stake (i think).
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TuffSkull
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:19 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Tue Feb 25, 2003 11:49 am
Posts: 2830
Location: South East UK
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| Quote (Vitamins @ 11 2003 Oct.,04:35) | What are the legal ramifications of fans getting together and sculpting models that wont be released for a long time and distributing them on the internet? What about charging for them? or simply charging for shipping and the cost of supplies?
Im asking because intellectual property would be at stake (i think). |
If you're working on a generic looking sci-fi model from scratch then there is nothing anyone can do to stop you from doing what you want in terms of distributing / selling.
However, if you start to add distinguishable details such as Imperial Eagles to the models, then GW might well jump on your case.
You'd have to make sure you didnt market them in any way linked to GW or epic (even the clause "suitable for use with" has apparently been enough for GW to take shots at a couple of sites as to attempting to infringe on their own sales).
And once again - it would have to be built from scratch. If its noticably based on existing parts, GW will have you for breakfast._________________ Cheers, Paul "TuffSkull" T. http://hobbybrush.com - My New Website, with thousands of painted Mini Pics :) http://hobbybrush.blogspot.com - My Hobby Blog TuffSkull's notepad- My Old Blog on Wargames Wiki.
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CyberShadow
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 2:46 pm |
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| Swarm Tyrant |
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Joined: Thu Jan 02, 2003 6:22 pm
Posts: 9338
Location: Singapore
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It guess it comes down to your approach and rationale. If you are making GW minis for a GW game, then GW will probably descend from a height. They will state that you are infringing on future sales - or, people will buy your minis and then not need the ones that they make in 12 months.
If you are putting together generic minis which happen to be compatible then that should be OK.
This means that generic human sci fi troops should be fine, but things like Space Marines and Eldar, where the design is more unique, will be a hot area.
_________________ https://www.cybershadow.ninja - A brief look into my twisted world, including wargames and beyond. https://www.net-armageddon.org - The official NetEA (Epic Armageddon) site and resource.
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primarch
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:19 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
Tread lightly! Even if they are generic, even if they are "original" that is NO guarantee to avoid legal difficulties. A company will sometimes thow a nuisance suit your way knowing you lack the money to defend yourself, even when your right.
In current IP law proceeding, its more important the depth of your pocket than "justice".
I'd suggest to do whatever you need to but keep it off the internet, sort of like a cottage industry, very low key under GW's radar.
Primarch
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Vitamins
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:35 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:13 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Orange County, California
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So basically for myself and my friends, and maybe by email (since that isnt really public) i can make these miniatures?
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Vitamins
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 7:43 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:13 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Orange County, California
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That reminds me, once i emailed customerservice at gamesworkshop with a question about sculpting and casting my own epic miniatures... Ill copy paste it down here.
Definitely on both accounts! It's about the same as copying movies, etc....
You are free to create your own, but you cannot copy, and definitely not distribute, copyrighted miniatures.
Hope that helps, if you have any other questions, don't hesitate to drop us a line or give us a ring at 1-800-394-4263.
Tim Commo
Hobby Specialist
6721 Baymeadow Drive
Glen Burnie, MD 21060-6401
USA Mail Order 1-800-394-4263
Check us out on the Web: www.games-workshop.com
We take care of all your hobby needs: orders, questions & concerns.
Hours of operation: 9AM to Midnight (EST)-7 days a week.
[i deleted email addresses and the sig which just takes up space]
-----Original Message-----
From: Niyaz [mailto:roadpylon@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 25, 2003 10:36 PM
To: US Custserv
Subject: legality of things
hi,
i was wondering if it would be illegal to sculpt my own models cast and then sell them if they were basically epic versions of current 40k models?
Would i be able to sculpt and cast them for my own use legally if i didnt sell them (or maybe gave them to friends)?
thanks for any info on the subject
Niyaz
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This leads me to believe that i can sculpt my own things from scratch and sell them, but just not copy and sell. Im going to believe you guys when it comes to these matters... (would this email act like a get out of jail free card?)
Niyaz
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Jackhammer
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:53 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Thu Feb 06, 2003 9:36 pm
Posts: 466
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I may just be being stupid here, but I you sure that's not 'definitely' its illegal rather than 'definitely' its fine?
Jackhammer, who can read it either way
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Jimbo
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sat Oct 11, 2003 9:56 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:01 pm
Posts: 3495
Location: Wessex
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| Quote (Vitamins @ 11 2003 Oct.,19:43) | | This leads me to believe that i can sculpt my own things from scratch and sell them, but just not copy and sell. Im going to believe you guys when it comes to these matters... (would this email act like a get out of jail free card?) |
Just remember even if you sculpt from scratch, but if your scratch-built model is based on a 40K version or drawing then GW may consider you are infringing copyright or trademarks.
The main issue to remember is that if the models are your own use it is unlikely that GW will find out and sue - doesn't make it right though.
Personally create models for yourself and not worry about distributing.
So basically for myself and my friends, and maybe by email (since that isnt really public) i can make these miniatures? |
e-mail is more public than anything else, as various people have found out it can be very difficult to keep e-mail private... as people will forward e-mails left right and centre...
_________________ Jimbo
Felix's Gaming Pages
Felix's Gaming Pages Blog
Almost Always Right...
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Vitamins
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:31 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:13 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Orange County, California
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| Quote (Jackhammer @ 11 2003 Oct.,13:53) | I may just be being stupid here, but I you sure that's not 'definitely' its illegal rather than 'definitely' its fine?
Jackhammer, who can read it either way |
hmm... im glad you brought that up. Well looks like its just for me then.
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rargh
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 1:32 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2003 5:11 pm
Posts: 47
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Hi guys,
I agree - I think you'll find that the fellow from GW was saying 'It's definately illegal on both counts'.
There is nothing to stop you from sculpting them as long as:
a - they don't look like established GW stuff (breach of IP)
b - you don't make it obvious that they are for a GW system. Unforunately, that means that if you mount them on the standard sized epic discs, (which are rather unique) so they'll fit in epic bases you've pretty much demonstrated that you intend them for use with Epic.
R
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primarch
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 4:37 am |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
Whatever you do on your own or quietly with some friends is your own business, but once you try to expand from there it may "leak" and boomerang back to you.
In simple terms you can cast to your hearts content, be it your own stuff or otherwise, but you darn well better do it privately.
A word of advice, I'd be cautious of broadcasting your intentions here or via e-mails to GW. Call me paranoid, but you never know who may be keeping tabs on this sort of thing.
I remember a saying in spanish that translates thus:
"The best kept secret is the one no one but you knows"
Meaning there is no such thing as a secret shared by more than one person, by definition its no longer a secret.
So do what you will, but enjoy it quietly and privately...... 
Primarch
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Chris
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 10:55 am |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 6:42 pm
Posts: 2412
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Can I ask, what are you planning on sculpting?
Cheers
Chris
_________________
Chris
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primarch
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 3:09 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Fri Feb 14, 2003 12:46 am
Posts: 27069
Location: Edmond, Oklahoma USA
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Hi!
I was curious about that too, what are your plans?
Mostly infantry or vehicles?
Primarch
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Vitamins
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Sun Oct 12, 2003 11:11 pm |
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| Brood Brother |
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Joined: Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:13 pm
Posts: 81
Location: Orange County, California
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I was going to make a vampire raider and thunderhawk that looked like they could carry the amount of troops the rules say they can after a while, my own stormtroopers and valkyries after that, and some tau infantry (most because resin seems like it would be too brittle for my tastes to buy from forgeworld, plus the costs are kinda prohibitive.) I've got a few connections with friends and family as far as casting equipment goes so that would make the cost of all the casting equipment not as great a factor.
I imagine infantry in general would be pretty difficult to sculpt at first but i think i could get the hang of it...
But after reading the GW copyright and intellectual property rules they have, it seems that it would be illegal to even make my own castings for myself (based on GW works).
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seekermeng
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Post subject: Fan sculpting Posted: Mon Oct 13, 2003 6:06 pm |
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Joined: Sat Mar 01, 2003 9:16 pm
Posts: 156
Location: Angola, IN
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I've done a lot of sculpting in a lot of different scales, here's are my rules.
1 I only do it for myself and friends.
2 I never charge for the stuff I do. I usually have the person I sculpt for pay for materials and thats it.
I'm never gonna make a living as a sculptor. That's not my intention. It's just an extension of my hobby.
_________________
Omnia Exeunt In Mysterium
meng...
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