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Army of Vaul
oreso	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:18 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:39 pm Posts: 17	The original thread is here: http://forums.specialist-games.com/epic....hpage=1 is there any interest in reviving the idea of armour heavy Eldar? has it been played with since? I've been playing with the idea again and propose something like: Core: Warlock (0-1, Supreme Commander) Phantom 2 Revenants 6 Falcons (options: upgrade fire prism/firestorm; +3 falcons) 3 Engines of Vaul Support: Warwalkers Jetbikes 1 Engine of Vaul 8 Guardians plus Transport (Wave Serpents or Vampire) Aliies: Knights Aircraft Titan options would be something like thus: Phantom and Warlock Options Primary (two available for Phantom, one for Warlock) Titan Pulsar: 75cm MW3+ TK(1), Pulse Tremor Cannon: 60cm 4BP Disrupt, Lance, Ignore Cover Heat Lance: 45cm MW2+ TK1 or 30cm MW2+ TK2 or 15cm MW2+ TK3 D-Cannon: 30cm 2BP Ignore Cover, TK(D3+1) Powerfist: 30cm 6x AP4+/AT4+ (15cm) Small Arms EA+3 (base) Assault EA+2, TK(D3) Secondary (two available) Eldar Missile Launcher: 45cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ Titan Bright Lance: 45cm AT4+/AA6+ Lance Snare Flachette: (15cm) Small Arms EA+2 Mandiblasters (base) Assault EA+3 Holofield Vanes: Reinforced Armour extra save is 4+. 3+ if two are used. Star Boosters: +5cm Speed (requires two) Upgrades 25pts Battle Head: add Twin Shuriken Cannon 30cm AP4+ 25pts Rear Projectors: add Thick Rear Armour 50pts Spirit Stone Matrix: add Commander and Leader 75pts Vectored Jump Jets: cannot use Reinforced Armour, but add Jump Pack. Revenant options Primary (two available) Pulse Lasers: 45cm MW3+ Pulse Vibro Cannon: 30cm 3BP Disrupt, Lance, Ignore Cover Fusion Cannon: 15cm MW2+ TK(1) D-Cannon: 30cm 2BP Ignore Cover, TK(1) Secondary (two available) Eldar Missile Launchers: 45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ Bright Lance: 45cm AT5+ Lance Snare Launcher: (15cm) Small Arms EA+2 Upgrades 25pts Powered Jump Jets: May be treated as Skimmer once per game from when it is activated until when it is activated again. What do you guys think? _________________ Jayne Cobb: "You know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I go get and beat you with until you realise who's in ruttin command!"
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nealhunt	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:27 pm
Purestrain Joined: Thu Feb 13, 2003 10:52 pm Posts: 9617 Location: Nashville, TN, USA	Semaj Nollisor has been working on an Eldar titan list that is very similar in concept.  You guys might want to exchange some ideas. _________________ Neal
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 5:33 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11147 Location: Canton, CT, USA	Interesting. I like it, sort of an Eldar version of ATML. I see you listed knights as allies. Where can I find stats for them? I don't remember seeing them anywhere. I do miss the blue background for the SG forum.   _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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semajnollissor	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:03 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA	Well, as Neal said, I'm still working on my ideas, but here are some suggestions that I can make for your list right off the bat. Primary Titan weapons: you have to decide whether you want free swapping of weapons or if different weapons are going to have different point costs. I lean toward the former, so that means your weapon stats (and the stats in the counts as list in swordwind) aren't going to work. Here are my suggested weapon stats, meant to give both parity between weapons and provide a wide range of effects (so that the weapons aren't so similar). Stats that are immutable: Pulsar 75cm MW3+, pulse, TK(1) Power Fist 30cm 6xAP4+/AT4+ or small arms, extra attacks (+3) or assault weapon, extra attacks (+2), TK(D3) Psychic Lance* 30cm 3BP ignore cover, disrupt *Warlock only Stats we can play with: Fusion Lance 60cm MW2+, TK(1) or 45cm MW2+, TK(2) or 30cm MW2+, TK(3) or 15cm MW2+, TK(4) Tremor Cannon 60cm 4BP, disrupt, lance Distortion Cannon 30cm 2BP, ignore cover, TK(D3+1) Even these stats give annoyingly similar weapons. I mean, why take a fusion lance when you can take a D-cannon? I think that to make them balanced we might need to go against the old fluff and make them fit new, more diverse roles. Secondary Titan weapons: basically the same comment, you should make sure they are equivalently valued choices. I'm not sure an AT4+ lance is as valuable as a AP4/AT5/AA5 choice. Here are the ones I came up with: Twin Eldar Missile Launcher 45cm AP4+/AT5+/AA5+ Twin Pulse Laser 45cm AT3+, pulse Vibro Blade assault weapon, extra attack (+2), MW Psi Talons small arms, extra attack(+1), lance, first strike or assault weapon, extra attacks(+1), lance, first strike Scout titans: etc, etc. Primaries: Pulsar 45cm MW3+, pulse Sonic Lance 45cm 3BP, disrupt, lance Maelstrom Cannon 30cm 6xAP4+/AT4+ Secondaries: Eldar Missile Launcher 45cm AP5+/AT6+/AA6+ Pulse Laser 45cm AT4+, pulse Psi Talons small arms, extra attack(+1), lance, first strike or assault weapon, extra attacks(+1), lance, first strike Finally, instead of upgrades, I just had characters: Bone Singer Type: character Notes: invulnerable save, thick rear armour Doge Type: character Notes: invulnerable save, supreme commander, inspiring Reeve Type: character Notes: commander
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semajnollissor	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:10 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA	And even more: Here's my opinion on how Guardian Troupes should be in this list: 8 guardian stands Up to four Guardians may be replaced with Heavy Weapon Platforms at no additional cost. Four Guardians may be replaced with Support Weapon Platforms for +50 pts 4 War Walkers may be added for +150pts Alternatively, the formation may be mounted in four Wave Serpents for +200 points. In addition, any Wave Serpent may be replaced with two Falcons for +75 pts. If the formation is mounted in transports, it may not include heavy or support weapon platforms. This formation is supposed to be the equivalent of several other formations. With no upgrades this is an ineffective extra activation. If all of the support and heavy weapons are taken, it becomes equivalent to an ork big gun mob. If transports are taken, it is equivalent to a mechanized infantry formation. I set the base number of units at 8 so that it can be transported in a Vampire. Also, keep in mind these don't have to be Guardians in the strictest sense, but can represent Corsairs or Exodite warriors (with identical stats) if you'd prefer. I suggest using the old lasgun carrying guardians is you wish to call them corsairs or exodite warriors.
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Tactica	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:34 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	Interesting idea gents. Very interesting. Does MC23 back this at all out of curiousity? How about Jervis - is he open to it - again, out of curiousity? _________________ Rob
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:54 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11147 Location: Canton, CT, USA	Quote (Tactica @ 09 Mar. 2006 (17:34)) How about Jervis - is he open to it - again, out of curiousity? Who cares? Do we really need GW's stamp of approval? _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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Tactica	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:57 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	DS, Well - I kinda cared.... LOL. (sorry) My group tends to embrace things that they can take elsewhere and travel with. I agree, we can play with tiddly-winks and marbles if we want to make the rules for them, but when I show up at the battlebunker, I may get laughed out of there for showing up with that. The Jervis stamp brings some credibility to the effort - thats all. So although I applaud the effort and hope the list is built regardless, my question does have a basis. From the answers, I can gauge where and when I'll be able to have an opponent to use the list. Tis all, _________________ Rob
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semajnollissor	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:00 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA	The only reason it matters is because this forum is only supposed to be for the officially official lists. That means this thread might ought to be moved to the forum with the Elysian and the Blood Axe lists. In fact, the question of where this discussion is supposed to take place is one of the main reasons I haven't posted my list yet (that, and I was waiting on some feedback, which I just got recently).
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Tactica	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:02 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 12:12 am Posts: 2241	If not official, then yeah - I think CS will ask that you take up resiendence next to the Elysians. That's not to say that it won't get attention though. The Elysian thread has taken off. _________________ Rob
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Dwarf Supreme	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 7:07 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Fri May 20, 2005 8:45 pm Posts: 11147 Location: Canton, CT, USA	Don't get me wrong, having Jervis' approval would be nice, if not preferred, but in my eyes it's not manadatory. _________________ "I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart
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oreso	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2006 10:37 pm
Brood Brother Joined: Tue Jul 05, 2005 12:39 pm Posts: 17	this list has no official support as far as im aware, so move the thread where needed. Thats not to say i wouldnt like it to be made official as i think it could be a solid list, but if wishes were horses, we'd all be eating steak howdy again semaj! Primary Titan weapons: free swapping, so my stats were rough stabs at that. I'd appreciate if Blarg or someone could run them through their clever maths to give some common ground. My weapon roles were Tremor: disrupter, so i guess MW isnt necessary. 4x AT3+ Disrupt, Lance or something. Lance on vibro weapons is a good call, but i think we should go for non-barrage; as in, its a focused wave. This will differentiate it from the D-cannon more. Heat lance: close range anti-WE D-cannon: longer range anti-WE barrage Secondary Titan weapons: an AT4+ lance does seem useful considering what the normal targets are going to be for the titan (hard vehicles). AP4+ and AA5+ are nice and flexible, but you wont be using it all that much. What are the vibro blades and psi talons meant to represent? Upgrades: What's a Doge and a Reeve? :S Support choices: 8 guardians seems fine, considering the vampire is a good call. Dwarf Supreme, The knights were referenced from the most recent exodite list at the time, so i doubt thats up to date now. _________________ Jayne Cobb: "You know what the chain of command is? Its the chain I go get and beat you with until you realise who's in ruttin command!"
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semajnollissor	Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 2:50 am
Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA	The Doge and Reeve were just names I pulled out of thin air for the obligatory characters. A Reeve is like a mayor or a sheriff (shire reeve) - I used this name for my personal exodite list, which will never get any play, so I used it here too. A doge was the nobleman elected to rule over one of the Italian city-states in the middle ages. That seemed like a good combo for an Eldar leader. Though, the word doge does also have a negative connotation, since it implies the backstabbing and double dealing that was required to get elected to the position. Basically, I tried to find a character name that had not been used before and seemed to fit the eldar image. The psi talons are just a name I came up with to explain the effect of getting extra FF/CC attacks. they can be thought of being like titan sized mandi-blasters (thanks to Neal for that idea). I was looking over the options that AMTL titans can take, and noticed that they can go way overboard on the FF/CC extra attacks. So, I figured the eldar could use a boost (only a slight boost) in that area. The Vibro Blade is supposed to be a big power blade fitted like a bayonet to the main weapon barrel. It doesn't take up the same physical space as the other secondary weapons, but it can be rationalized by saying that the power it requires prevents the use of one secondary weapon.
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semajnollissor

Post subject: Army of Vaul Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2006 6:02 am

Brood Brother Joined: Mon Dec 26, 2005 6:38 pm Posts: 1673 Location: Chattanooga, TN, USA

Quote (oreso @ 09 Mar. 2006 (15:37)) Tremor: disrupter, so i guess MW isnt necessary. 4x AT3+ Disrupt, Lance or something. Lance on vibro weapons is a good call, but i think we should go for non-barrage; as in, its a focused wave. This will differentiate it from the D-cannon more. The reason I thought it should be a barrage weapon is that it is supposed to affect all formations between the gun and the target. I figured the only way to represent its ability to hit multiple formations would be to make it a blast weapon. While the wave may be focused, it causes the ground to shake in a wide swath. Also, I kind of feel, that unless it gets at least 4x shots AND can hit both AP and AT targets, the D-cannon will be a better option. Finally, I wanted a weapon that could give multiple templates - that description didn't fit any of the other choices. At 4BP, two of them give three templates and alot of BMs, but it will only affect a few units on a double action (the most likely time it will be used, as it is not an indirect fire weapon). Heat lance: close range anti-WE D-cannon: longer range anti-WE barrage Well, my problem is that there is already plenty of anti-WE ability in the existing weapons. If you look at the AMTL list, they get a bunch of high rate-of-fire non-MW weapons. The only one the eldar get is the P-fist. I think some in-between weapons would allow eldar titans to take on more roles in the army list, which I think will be necessary. Secondary Titan weapons: an AT4+ lance does seem useful considering what the normal targets are going to be for the titan (hard vehicles). AP4+ and AA5+ are nice and flexible, but you wont be using it all that much.

Well, I place a pretty high value on that AA ability, the rest is just a bonus. In fact, I would guess that most every titan that has a choice will take at least one missile launcher. I figure the only way to complete with the AA ability would be to give the alternative multiple shots (but not too many). The pulse laser seemed a good fit.