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BFG: WWI
stormseer
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:09 am 
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You would also have to change the movement rules slightly- if you stop engines in a ship, you will come to a halt, unlike in BFG- in zero-g intertia will result in continued movement until an opposite force is applied...

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vanvlak
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 10:50 am 
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Not immediately Stormseer - a ship can move ahead indefinitely after stopping engines, and has to reverse its engines, or at least its screws, to stop.

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stormseer
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 11:44 am 
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Yeah, that was what I meant; you will come to an eventual halt in a ship on the sea, as opposed to in space, where there is no friction...

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vanvlak
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 5:40 pm 
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Ah, but there's gravity...:p  ok, I'm being a twerp. Sorry....

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vanvlak
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 6:05 pm 
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OK, Mojarn, I've got Jane's out, so here goes. I'm basing on the British Grand Fleet here. I've generalized the very specific armour plate dimensions here for one or two examples.

Dreadnought (Battleship):
Queen Elizabeth class (1912-1913)these survived to be useful in WWII):
vertical armour - 13" belt, 6" upper belt, 10-11" turrets and barbettes, 11" conning tower
deck armour - 1 - 3"
HMS Dreadnought (1906):
vertical armour - 9-11" belt, 8" upper belt, 11-12" turrets and barbettes, 11" conning tower
deck armour - 3/4 - 4"

Battle Cruisers:
HMS Tiger (1912)
vertical armour - 9" belt, 6" upper belt, 6-9" turrets and barbettes, 10" conning tower
deck armour - 1 - 3"
( these battlecruisers were the ones which were most troubled by the flash explosions inthe magazines)

Battleships (Pre-Dreadnought):
HMS Swiftsure (1902):
vertical armour - 7" belt, 7-10" turrets and barbettes, 10" conning tower
deck armour - 1 1/2 - 3"

Cruisers:
HMS Glorious (1916; later converted to aircraft carrier and sunk in WWII):
vertical armour - 3" belt, 7-9" turrets and barbettes, 10" conning tower
deck armour - 1 - 3"

Light Cruiser:
Caroline Class (1913-14):
vertical armour - 3" sides; deck armour - 1"

Aircraft Carrier:
HMS Furious (1916, cruiser conversion):
vertical armour - 3" sides; deck armour - 1"
No data provided for Destroyers, Patrol Boats (similar to WWII corvettes), Torpedo Boats (corvette-sized), submarines, minelayers, minesweepers, depot ships, repair and salvage ships, tankers, etc.

Ref.:
Jane's Fighting Ships of WW1, Studio Ediiton, 1990 reprint, ISBN 1851703780

Buy it if you get the chance and if you like naval history - it's a must for WW1 ships of all navies involved - including the Finnish fleet, Mojarn, e.g. if you want to look up e.g. a gunboat named Voevoda (1893) of 400 tons armed with 2 or 3 11 pdr guns and 2 MGs, designed for 3500HP= 21knots but reduced to 17knots at time of original printing; the boat shipped 80T of coal, and had been captured from Russia in 1918. The Maltese fleet is, alas, the only serious omission..we had some excellent fishing boats back then...

Cheers :p

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stormseer
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2004 9:25 pm 
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Quote (vanvlak @ 06 2004 July,17:40)
Ah, but there's gravity...:p ?ok, I'm being a twerp. Sorry....

Depends where you are in space doesn't it.... perhaps we ought to take the solar wind into consideration too....  :p  ...lol....

...okay, enough silliness...  :D

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Legion 4
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 5:16 am 
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The History Channel had a great show on those flawed Brit Cruisers ... ouch ! :p  I like the research too !   Janes is the best ! :;):

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Mojarn Piett
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 8:24 am 
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Thanks Vanvlak! War Times Journal had a rather surprising comment about the Jane's books:A few valuable references include Conway's Fighting Ships : 1906-1922, Siegfried Breyer's Battleships and Battlecruisers 1905 - 1970, and any of the older Jane's books, although the later should be approached with caution due to their many errors.
(emphasis mine) :o

About ships in general; how long does it take for a large ship to stop or slow its speed considerably? I was thinking about the "burn retros" special order. It could be renamed "reverse screws" or something, but I think it should be modified a little as I don't think a battleship could stop within the time frame of one turn.

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vanvlak
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:27 am 
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Hi Mojarn, that's odd, always thought Jane's were up to scratch - even in the early years. stopping a ship - well, a supertanker could take kms! In fact I believe they usually start slowing down kms away from port, and then reverse their screws when they get nearer to get to a full stop or move astern as required. :)

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Legion 4
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 2:30 pm 
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Surprise to me too ! Janes use to be the best !? ???

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CyberShadow
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:20 pm 
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Janes are a great source - I have an original printing from (I think) the late 1940's. But, what you have to remember is that they are a war manual, and were often printed during war times. This means that stats on the enemy ships were often sketchy at best, and sometimes relied on good conjucture, and the allies were not too keen on printing things like 'the turret is the weak point of the vessel'.  :;):

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Legion 4
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2004 10:23 pm 
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Good point, C/S !:;):

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vanvlak
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2004 6:41 am 
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Ah, yes I think you put your finger on it CS. :D

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Gaunts Ghost
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:19 pm 
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Just as an aside to your swordfish discussion. The Royal Navy had plans in 1918 to attack the German High Seas Fleet in its harbour in Jade Bay using a Sopwith Cuckoo Torpedo bombers launched from an early aircraft carrier (converted liner - HMS Argus). It would have been a WW1 Pearl Harbour / Taranto. See this link.

http://www.firstworldwar.com/airwar/navalwarfare.htm

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Gaunts Ghost
 Post subject: BFG: WWI
PostPosted: Thu Jul 15, 2004 6:22 pm 
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Here's another good link with the cuckoo pictured dropping its tin fish.

http://www.nms.ac.uk/flight/index.asp?m=3&s=3

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