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How Should Guard Mortars Work?

 Post subject: Re: How Should Guard Mortars Work?
PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2021 9:02 pm 
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At 2-3 mortars to a stand I think 80mm mortars can have BP1. They have worse range than a Basilisk but they make up for it with rate of fire.

An unsaved hit in Epic is and casualty that renders the stand ineffective, so while a tank can't be destroyed by mortars it can have its optics smashed, suffer track damage or even have the crew bail out because they thought it was another type of attack and they get hit with shrapnel. In any case it can't fight anymore so its removed as a casualty.

2x AP5+/AT6+ 30cm Ind is basically just a fiddly autocannon and I never trust my Guard to actually pass their initiative rolls so it being much better on Sustain but worse on any other action means I'd rather have the autocannon on infantry.


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 Post subject: Re: How Should Guard Mortars Work?
PostPosted: Sat Jun 26, 2021 4:41 pm 
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81mm or 82mm mortars ... even though the models look like 120mm or even larger. No matter really ... they look good on the table ! ;D


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 Post subject: Re: How Should Guard Mortars Work?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 8:53 am 
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Based on modern and traditional military tactics for light and medium mortars in organised forces Mortar platoons and in larger formations Mortar companies, they are traditionally organised into sections of 2 mortar teams each, and then a whole Platoon is 3 sections. A company is 3 Platoons.

Mortars carry everything from HE rounds, Delay fuse and proximity fuse HE rounds. White Phospherous (which is currently banned by NATO forces), Englands forces use a special round that is almost as long as the mortar tube itself. It deploys a parachute that is semi-guided and targets to the largest magnet souce - normally a tank or APC and has a special AP warhead.

With this in mind, I would think the Mortar has the ability to damage both Light Armour, supress normal tanks, and generally obliterate infantry out of cover. The 81mm or 3 inch mortar has a rage of 400m (danger close) to 4.5 km. From this point on the normal artillery takes over wiht ranges rangoing from 17km to 23km and longer for guided missiles like the cruise missile, etc.

For shorter ranger up to 400m, ther is the 30mm and 40mm grenade launcher, and it has so many varied round types, it can be deployed as illum, HE, WP, HE DP, AP, etc. The grenade launcher is a weapon found in many of the Adeptus Arbites lists

I would ensure the mortar has the ability to hurt Infantry, a smaller chance to hiurt AV, and possibly be able to Supress the enemy perhaps - Disrupt. Mortars landing around you - even if they do not land directly on you will force you to drop into cover, find a rifle pit, or some hole in the ground.

I would use a range that equates to roughly 4.5 km on an epic table top for the mortars, say use the griffin as an example, while using the basilisk and the manticore for the artillery which would have a range of between 17 and 23 km.

The only difference is that the paired 81mm mortars would be the equivelant of a 120mm heavy mortar in fire power, but they are man portable and can be quickly broken down to relocate them. Mortar teams regularly setup, make a 15km pack march along with the rest of their batallion who carry extra ammo for them and then set up again to fire on the enemy.


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 Post subject: Re: How Should Guard Mortars Work?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 9:19 am 
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An 81mm mortar has a primary kill blast zone of 20 - 30 metre but travels a much wider distance. They are normally set to bracket each other landing at 20m intervals.

Similarly the 105mm artillery piece has a primary blast zone of about 40 to 60 metres., and as with mortars ar formed into a sections each of 2 guns, a platoon/battery of 6 guns. They plan their intervals (range each gun drops its round from the one next to it) at 40 metres apart.

I am not sure what the 155mm guns work to for their planned intervals.

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 Post subject: Re: How Should Guard Mortars Work?
PostPosted: Sat Jul 10, 2021 3:29 pm 
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I agree with that ... again having been an 81mm Plt at times when I was with the 101. And trained in calling all forms of supporting fires. E.g. mortars, FA, CAS, gunships and even Naval fire support.

At that time 81s were an Inf Co. asset of 5 tubes per Plt. At Bn level there were a Plt of 4.2 in. mortars of 4 tubes.

For FA, which was not an organic asset of an Inf Bn. They were attached to direct support, etc. You never saw those guns in an Infantry unit. But there were Forward Observers/Fire Support Tms from that FA Bn supporting that Infantry unit they were in direct support of.

Of course Infantry & Armor NCOs and Officers were trained to call in organic mortar support and attached FA support. As well as many were trained to call-in CAS. The radio is the most powerful weapon a Ldr/Cdr has.

FA, i.e., 105 & 155, in the USA were organized as 4 Plts of 6 tubes each per FA Bn. Later that was reorganized to 3 Plts of 8 per Bn.

At a higher level of fire support, the US FA had 175mm & 8 in. Bns for higher levels of Cmd to use as required. Later there were MLRS[i.e. like an Epic Whirlwind, etc.] Bns. And the 175mm guns were taken out of the US FA Inventory, and later the 8 inch. Basically being replaced per se by the MLRS and later the Tactical Missile System. Were both in the inventory for higher levels of indirect supporting fires. Think of the Tac Msl System of may be a
an Epic Deathstrike.

Also later the 81mm mortars were removed from the Infantry Cos. And not replaced. But Bn still had it's 4.2 in. Plt. As well as the FA lost it's 105s. Superior tech in both weaponry and ability to call in indirect support made 81s and 105s no longer need. And larger caliber, like the 4.2 in mortar & 155mm FA guns, "better" as in this case "Big is Better".

E.g. a 4.2 has a longer range and "Bigger Bang" than an 81. The same is true with the 155 vs. 105s. etc., etc.

IMO the "best", most "realistic" Indirect Fire Support Rules were from SM1. They need a very little "tweaking" to make them "better".

Also it surprises me a bit when some use Whirlwinds in a direct fire mode. Whirlwinds like IG FA should be placed on the edge of the board behind cover. And only be called in indirectly. Now sometimes you have to use these in the direct fire mode. But generally they are "better" used in the indirect mode. They will survive longer, etc.

And to be totally "realistic" most FA should in another room or further away. And not put on the board. But for game purposes it works to just keep them on the edge of the board behind cover. We have to make some concessions to "the game vs. reality" ...

E.g. IMO SM2 is the least "realistic" wargame, per se ... vs. E:A and even E40K. SM1 sadly needed a lot of tweaking to make it a very good wargame. Which we did adding a few things from SM2, E40K, E:A, etc. to suit our idea of a "good wargame". Not a "good" game with the board full of bright shiny things. Without any saves and even a chance of modern combined arms maneuver warfare. Line up, shoot and run to the middle and go into close combat which we see SM1/TL is a standard. If that is what you want to do ... do for it.

As always do what works for you and your gaming crew not what I/we do/did ...

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