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Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists

 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Fri Jan 03, 2020 12:20 am 
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I'll be rocking this list come Cancon at them end of the month

Keen to get the games in


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:52 am 
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Mard wrote:
I'll be rocking this list come Cancon at them end of the month

Keen to get the games in


Nice to hear Mard, best of luck in the tournament.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 3:55 am 
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atension wrote:
Had a good game against Feral Orks this past weekend standard tourney scenario. I didn't take good enough notes to make a legit bat rep but I did write this narrative for kicks.


Thanks for the write up, hope you and others get around to doing some reports eventually. If we could get this approved before summer I'd be able to bring it to the big international tournament here in Sweden in the autumn.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Sat Jan 04, 2020 1:26 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 3:16 am 
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I finally had a chance to get my new nids onto a table at our local club and got two games in against Cadians and Black Templars (new experimental airdrop list). I'm in the process of writing up a full report of my game against Mard's Cadians (2-0 victory to Cadians on turn 4), but as that'll take a few days here are some thoughts on the list in the mean time.

I took:
Quote:
Primary Synapse
350 - Major swarm, Hive Tyrant, 4x Zoanthropes, 3x Carnifex, Mycetic spore
350 - Major swarm, Hive Tyrant, 4x Zoanthropes, 3x Carnifex, Mycetic spore
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)

Secondary Synape
400 - Attack Swarm. Barbed Hierodule Prime, 2x Barbed Hierodule.
275 - Nest swarm. 8x Biovores.
275 - Nest swarm. 8x Biovores.
200 - Nest swarm. 4x Biovores.
200 - Infestation swarm. 3x Ravener Alpha, 5x Ravener.

Independent
200 - Genestealer swarm. 7x Genestealers with Broodlord
150 - Bio-vessel. Razorfiend.


Bearing in mind that I only have two games under my belt with this list and made a few mistakes in deployment and gameplay that I'll try to avoid in future, here are my thoughts:


1. Formations in this list take casualties easily, but remain unbroken and combat effective for a surprisingly long time
This feels right, and I love it. Fun example: a Warlord Titan unloaded on a small swarm of warriors and gaunts, killed half the gaunts and a warrior for only 2 BMs, and the formation was still able to activate and destroy a unit of Cadian Sentinels. Love it: if you don't kill the synapse, the nids just keep coming.


2. Carnifexes are still not great.
Carnifexes need BtB engages to achieve anything but are extremely slow and struggle to get there. This makes them worthless in the Onachus list but potentially useful in Dagon with mycetic spores. The problem is, 350pts for a unit with 3 carnifexes that planetfalls to a preplotted location with only a 20cm threat bubble just doesn't feel great. You'll probably be able to engage something on arrival, but the odds are it won't be the heavily armoured BTS unit you want to use those MW attacks against. Even in BtB combat, carnifexes with their low numbers and relatively few attacks don't quite feel impressive enough to justify the points (spaceship + spore) needed to get them there.

In my opinion, carnifexes should be faster, deadlier, or both. Some thoughts on ways to achieve that:
-Give carnifexes infiltrate, possibly in combination with a reduction of movement to 15cm. This feels thematic (they're screamer-killers! they scream and charge!), and would give them a better chance of making it to BtB from a spore drop.
-Reduction in cost to 3 for 100 points or 4 carnifexes for 125-150 pts. I'm unconvinced that carnifexes are any better than haruspexes as-is (despite their higher points cost), but haruspexes aren't as reliant on 200+ points of spaceship and spores to get where they need to be.
-Increase stats: add an extra MW CC attack, or CC2+. Alternative: carnifexes in 40k have had decent ranged firepower for some time now. Adding +1EA (FF) or a Venom Cannon would at least give carnifexes something to do if they can't reach BtB.

Without some sort of boost, I think buying 3 carnifexes for a spore is almost certainly a worse choice than buying 10 hormagaunts. The hormagaunts cost fewer points, have twice the engage range, and benefit from being expendable gaunts against shooting and in Dagon-initiated engagements.

3. Hierodules felt mediocre
I took a 400pt unit of 3 Barbed Hierodules as a curiosity, and I don't think it really fit in well with this list. That said, it was a struggle to use well: 25cm move + 45cm range is good for shooting the enemy frontline, but those are the units you're already able to engage with gaunts or infiltrating infantry. At the same time, 5+RA with 3DC means that they die relatively easy to MW/TK ranged fire (more of a problem vs Guard than against some other lists, but still). I'm going to experiment more with these guys but at the moment I'm unconvinced that they bring much to the list. The scythed hierodule looks even worse: as with the carnifexes, why pay 125pts for a slow CC monster when you could have 10 hormagaunts for 100pts (similarly survivable in cover and don't generate BMs)?

4. Nest swarms with Biovores are great
These are a great formation. Mard and I talked a little about whether the units with 8 biovores were worth it over the units with 4 and didn't come to an obvious agreement, which is nice: the minimal Nest + 4 Biovores unit is good for plinking 1 or 2 BMs per turn and guarding an objective, but adding 4 more Biovores actually makes a moderately capable shooting garrison (assuming access to area terrain for cover saves).

5. Small units of infantry, especially gaunts, are good value and powerful
Small synapse swarms with 10 gaunts are dirt cheap and can cause real damage when they hit. Sniping the LV synapse creatures is certainly an option for your opponent, but the Dagon terrain rules really help keeping that from getting out of hand (and forcing the player to make hard decisions between positioning for engages vs positioning for survivability).
I'm a fan of the all-ravener infestation swarm: it gets where it needs to go and hits hard in assault. I don't understand why the 3 Ravener Alphas are cheaper than a single Trygon Prime. As I see it the Raveners are more survivable (don't die to TK and can get cover saves), more powerful in CC, and most importantly more likely to reach BtB due to Infiltrate.
Genestealers are also great: I used mine suboptimally, but they're a cheap and nasty unit that can bring turn 1 engagements while being ultimately disposable.
One criticism of the infantry side of the list: Gargoyles come in fewer numbers than gaunts (4 vs 5 for 50pts) and are also significantly worse in both FF and CC. I don't think that's a fair tradeoff for the increased speed, so would instinctively suggest either making them FF5+ or increasing the swarm size to 5 for 50pts.

Overall thoughts
I like this list alot, and it feels far more interesting than the E:A/EUK tyranid lists. That said, I suspect that it might suffer from the same problem as the EUK list in that it's hard to say if any of the bigger bugs are more valuable than their equivalent points in gaunts. For example, I'd be interested to see how a list like this would play:

Quote:
1x 275 - Major Swarm. Hive Tyrant, 4 Warriors, 10 Gaunts.
5x 200 - Minor Swarm. 3 Warriors, 10 Gaunts.

3x 200 - Infestation Swarm. 3 Ravener Alphas, 5 Raveners.
3x 200 - Nest swarm. 4x Biovores.

3x 175 - Genestealers.


A list like this would normally suffer from formations being attrited to uselessness by the end of turn 2, but expendable + the ability to absorb synapseless formations into surviving synapse swarms might be able to mitigate that. Has this sort of gaunt spam list been tested?


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 11:34 am 
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I've done a gaunt spam list a couple times. Did very well against a cadian list that was super heavy focused, lol what do nids care about TK shots. But got ruined by an eldar list.

Done the spore drop list also and it did well. The carnifex while yeah are slower are a big threat and good for holding objectives as they are a good screen for your synapse. Taking the spores itll be fairly self evident you are going to drop them on the blitz most of the time and this caused my opponent to turtle a good amount of his forces. The carnifex just ripped through his defenses and then added the couple turns of staying power weathering a good amount of firepower to hold the objective.

Also I dont mind the barbed heirodules they are i belive the shooty unit in a list thats drawback is supposed to be lack of serious shooting. Agreed they arent amazing but they are rrasonably good at throwning them into range for supporting fire and shooting down broken formations.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:25 pm 
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Jianaran wrote:
I finally had a chance to get my new nids onto a table at our local club and got two games in against Cadians and Black Templars (new experimental airdrop list). I'm in the process of writing up a full report of my game against Mard's Cadians (2-0 victory to Cadians on turn 4), but as that'll take a few days here are some thoughts on the list in the mean time.

I took:
Quote:
Primary Synapse
350 - Major swarm, Hive Tyrant, 4x Zoanthropes, 3x Carnifex, Mycetic spore
350 - Major swarm, Hive Tyrant, 4x Zoanthropes, 3x Carnifex, Mycetic spore
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)
200 - Minor Swarm, 3 Warriors, 10x Gaunts (8 Termagants/2 Hormagaunts)

Secondary Synape
400 - Attack Swarm. Barbed Hierodule Prime, 2x Barbed Hierodule.
275 - Nest swarm. 8x Biovores.
275 - Nest swarm. 8x Biovores.
200 - Nest swarm. 4x Biovores.
200 - Infestation swarm. 3x Ravener Alpha, 5x Ravener.

Independent
200 - Genestealer swarm. 7x Genestealers with Broodlord
150 - Bio-vessel. Razorfiend.


Seems like a flexible list, perhaps a bit light on shooting, but as you say later, taking a lot of Gaunts/Raveners can certainly compensate for that.


Quote:
1. Formations in this list take casualties easily, but remain unbroken and combat effective for a surprisingly long time
This feels right, and I love it. Fun example: a Warlord Titan unloaded on a small swarm of warriors and gaunts, killed half the gaunts and a warrior for only 2 BMs, and the formation was still able to activate and destroy a unit of Cadian Sentinels. Love it: if you don't kill the synapse, the nids just keep coming.


Capturing that dynamic is really hard with Tyranids, but I agree that the current rules does a good job of striking a balance. The original french list didn't have expendable on the Gaunts, perhaps because they felt it still made them too powerful, but it just feels weird that Tyranids would care about their cannon fodder getting killed.

Quote:
2. Carnifexes are still not great.
Carnifexes need BtB engages to achieve anything but are extremely slow and struggle to get there. This makes them worthless in the Onachus list but potentially useful in Dagon with mycetic spores. The problem is, 350pts for a unit with 3 carnifexes that planetfalls to a preplotted location with only a 20cm threat bubble just doesn't feel great. You'll probably be able to engage something on arrival, but the odds are it won't be the heavily armoured BTS unit you want to use those MW attacks against. Even in BtB combat, carnifexes with their low numbers and relatively few attacks don't quite feel impressive enough to justify the points (spaceship + spore) needed to get them there.


One thing we wanted to avoid was armies with tonnes of 4++ AVs running around. It turned out to be really powerful. Carnifexes got to keep their 4++, but at the cost of being kind of slow. On the upside, they're a really good bodyguard for a Hive Tyrant or a Dagon Overlord.

Quote:
In my opinion, carnifexes should be faster, deadlier, or both. Some thoughts on ways to achieve that:
-Give carnifexes infiltrate, possibly in combination with a reduction of movement to 15cm. This feels thematic (they're screamer-killers! they scream and charge!), and would give them a better chance of making it to BtB from a spore drop.
-Reduction in cost to 3 for 100 points or 4 carnifexes for 125-150 pts. I'm unconvinced that carnifexes are any better than haruspexes as-is (despite their higher points cost), but haruspexes aren't as reliant on 200+ points of spaceship and spores to get where they need to be.
-Increase stats: add an extra MW CC attack, or CC2+. Alternative: carnifexes in 40k have had decent ranged firepower for some time now. Adding +1EA (FF) or a Venom Cannon would at least give carnifexes something to do if they can't reach BtB.


The main principle has been to keep the stats as close to Onachus as possible, but putting 15cm Infiltrate on the Carnifexes could be an option. Two problems I see tho: 1 Taking drop swarms is already really powerful, this would make it more so. 2. Making Carnifexes 15cm means you would only ever take them in a drop swarm.

Having a version of the Carnifex with a Venom Cannon is an interesting possibility tho.

Quote:
3. Hierodules felt mediocre
I took a 400pt unit of 3 Barbed Hierodules as a curiosity, and I don't think it really fit in well with this list. That said, it was a struggle to use well: 25cm move + 45cm range is good for shooting the enemy frontline, but those are the units you're already able to engage with gaunts or infiltrating infantry. At the same time, 5+RA with 3DC means that they die relatively easy to MW/TK ranged fire (more of a problem vs Guard than against some other lists, but still). I'm going to experiment more with these guys but at the moment I'm unconvinced that they bring much to the list. The scythed hierodule looks even worse: as with the carnifexes, why pay 125pts for a slow CC monster when you could have 10 hormagaunts for 100pts (similarly survivable in cover and don't generate BMs)?


Might be that a Hierdoule costs too much as an upgrade. Always a problem to balance units in lists where a lot of stuff does almost the same thing.

Quote:
4. Nest swarms with Biovores are great
These are a great formation. Mard and I talked a little about whether the units with 8 biovores were worth it over the units with 4 and didn't come to an obvious agreement, which is nice: the minimal Nest + 4 Biovores unit is good for plinking 1 or 2 BMs per turn and guarding an objective, but adding 4 more Biovores actually makes a moderately capable shooting garrison (assuming access to area terrain for cover saves).


We've tried spamming Nest Swarms, and while they're good, they're also really static, and Biovores are not Gaunts, which means that a few BMs will shut them down fairly quickly.

Quote:
5. Small units of infantry, especially gaunts, are good value and powerful
Small synapse swarms with 10 gaunts are dirt cheap and can cause real damage when they hit. Sniping the LV synapse creatures is certainly an option for your opponent, but the Dagon terrain rules really help keeping that from getting out of hand (and forcing the player to make hard decisions between positioning for engages vs positioning for survivability).


Agree.

Quote:
I'm a fan of the all-ravener infestation swarm: it gets where it needs to go and hits hard in assault. I don't understand why the 3 Ravener Alphas are cheaper than a single Trygon Prime. As I see it the Raveners are more survivable (don't die to TK and can get cover saves), more powerful in CC, and most importantly more likely to reach BtB due to Infiltrate.


Might be that the save on the Raveners is a bit too good, the cost too low, or the cost of the Trygons too high. Trygons are better at camping at an objective, while are a lot better at popping up in horrible places and Engaging stuff (which might be more valuable).

Quote:
Genestealers are also great: I used mine suboptimally, but they're a cheap and nasty unit that can bring turn 1 engagements while being ultimately disposable.


And they're great at holding objectives, since they don't need Synapse. So don't dispose of them too quickly.

Quote:
One criticism of the infantry side of the list: Gargoyles come in fewer numbers than gaunts (4 vs 5 for 50pts) and are also significantly worse in both FF and CC. I don't think that's a fair tradeoff for the increased speed, so would instinctively suggest either making them FF5+ or increasing the swarm size to 5 for 50pts.


We had them at parity in the beginning, but the problem was that you ended up taking them over the others a lot of the time. You should try running a Swarm sometime with Gargoyles and Tyranid Warrior Shrikes, it's a really nasty swarm.

Quote:
Overall thoughts
I like this list alot, and it feels far more interesting than the E:A/EUK tyranid lists. That said, I suspect that it might suffer from the same problem as the EUK list in that it's hard to say if any of the bigger bugs are more valuable than their equivalent points in gaunts. For example, I'd be interested to see how a list like this would play:


As Atension says below, taking a list with mostly Gaunts in it will work really well against some opponents, but if they have a lot of AT shooting like Eldar or Tau, they will rapidly destroy all your Synapse. That being said, it's really hard to strike a balance between making the Gaunts useless, or them being the only game in town.

Quote:
A list like this would normally suffer from formations being attrited to uselessness by the end of turn 2, but expendable + the ability to absorb synapseless formations into surviving synapse swarms might be able to mitigate that. Has this sort of gaunt spam list been tested?


Yeah, we've tried Gaunt spam. It works, but it's really dependent on terrain and opponent. Like I wrote above, the most powerful list we've tried so far has been an Haruspex AV rush list, ended up having to nerf some stuff because of that.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:26 pm 
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On the subject of Carnifexes, it’s worth bearing in mind that both the NetEA and EpicUK lists are very much outliers in how Carnifex firepower is represented.

In Epic SM2/Hive War, their bio-plasma was roughly equivalent to a reduced range Heavy Plasma Gun/Plasma Cannon.
In Epic 40k they had the same range and firepower as a Tyranid Warrior base, or slightly more firepower than a base of Tactical Marines.

In earlier 40k (up to the 3rd ed codex?) they had bio-plasma which was again similar to a reduced range Heavy Plasma Gun/Plasma Cannon.
After the plastic kit came out, they generally got taken with Heavy Vennom Cannon, Barbed Stranglers, or massed Deathspitters etc. as a fire support unit that could also do nasty stuff in combat if it got close enough.

I’m currently using my own fandex version of the FERC list, and bumped them up from an AP5/AT6 Venom Cannon to an AP4/AT5 Heavy Vennom Cannon, along with the same on the Hive Tyrant.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Mon Jan 13, 2020 1:44 pm 
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Good to hear your thoughts Mrdiealot, and it feels like we're coming from a pretty similar place. I'm looking forward to seeing Mard's comments after taking Dagon through CanCon (more info here)

On carnifexes
Quote:
One thing we wanted to avoid was armies with tonnes of 4++ AVs running around. It turned out to be really powerful. Carnifexes got to keep their 4++, but at the cost of being kind of slow. On the upside, they're a really good bodyguard for a Hive Tyrant or a Dagon Overlord.

I understand that, but I still feel that a unit as iconic as the carnifex should feel more impressive. I don't really agree with the bodyguard argument: I'm unconvinced that HTs are really worth protecting (they're a carnifex with a gun in a unit that comes with 4 other synapse creatures), and Overlords are a niche enough unit that it seems wasteful to dedicate another unit to keeping them safe. 4++ also feels far less oppressive in this list than in other lists. A Leman Russ company is scary because there are 10 of them, they're tough as nails, and they pump out too much firepower to ignore. Carnifexes are only a threat within 20cm and come in far lower numbers, so IMO they don't present the same dilemma.

On making carnifexes better:
Quote:
The main principle has been to keep the stats as close to Onachus as possible, but putting 15cm Infiltrate on the Carnifexes could be an option. Two problems I see tho: 1 Taking drop swarms is already really powerful, this would make it more so. 2. Making Carnifexes 15cm means you would only ever take them in a drop swarm.

Having a version of the Carnifex with a Venom Cannon is an interesting possibility tho.

I've never heard anyone speak very kindly about the Onachus list, so I wouldn't feel too bound by its established conventions (and given the number of changes in Dagon, you clearly don't).
1) Drop swarms with FF and infiltrating CC units (warriors, zoanthropes, termagants, hormagaunts) feel powerful, but the 20cm range limit on carnifexes places them well below those other units IMO.
2) 15cm infiltrating carnifexes wouldn't actually be much slower than 20cm ones, even on foot. A standard T1 March + T2 Engage would reach 80cm for 20cm Carnifexes and 75cm for infiltrating 15cm carnifexes, with the latter having options like hiding behind a gaunt/genestealer screen at the end of turn 1 and presenting a much larger threat bubble to be avoided.

I'm not particularly committed to carnifexes being infiltrators, but I don't think it would be obviously a bad idea.

Hierodules
Quote:
Might be that a Hierdoule costs too much as an upgrade. Always a problem to balance units in lists where a lot of stuff does almost the same thing.

Might be worth playing with reducing the upgrade cost, but I'd be wary of the option to build a whole army around them. 3 Hierodules are vulnerable to IG with Deathstrikes and Shadowswords; putting 10 Hierodules into an army alongside a Domi and Titan could be a very different story.

...

On raveners
Quote:
Might be that the save on the Raveners is a bit too good, the cost too low, or the cost of the Trygons too high. Trygons are better at camping at an objective, while are a lot better at popping up in horrible places and Engaging stuff (which might be more valuable).

Reducing the save on the Raveners could well be an option here, but it doesn't change the fact that a 200pt unit can get into BtB at the top of turn 2 or 3 and drop 16 4+ attacks. The rest of the time it can sit in cover with a 4+/5+ save anyway.

Genestealers
Quote:
And they're great at holding objectives, since they don't need Synapse. So don't dispose of them too quickly.

Absolutely. My point was more than if they lost 4/6 or 5/7 units in the process of killing the formation I send them at, that's almost certainly a good trade. The remnants can stick around causing havoc as a bonus.

Gargoyles
Quote:
We had them at parity in the beginning, but the problem was that you ended up taking them over the others a lot of the time. You should try running a Swarm sometime with Gargoyles and Tyranid Warrior Shrikes, it's a really nasty swarm.


They definitely need to have worse stats than Gaunts, but going from FF5+ to FF6+ is a halving of FF effectiveness. If they can't FF or CC, all they're really good for is getting Outnumbering in engagements.
I'm going to try running shrikes + gargoyles in the near future, but I'm not really sure what I'll be able to throw them at. 8 Gargoyles + 3 Shrikes will give me maybe 2 FF hits in a unit that doesn't get Inspiring and is probably too small for 2:1 outnumbering... that doesn't feel like it's going to achieve a great deal.

On gaunt spam: I can see it failing against Eldar, but I'm not sure if anything else in this list could do any better. The artillery and ranged firepower is rare and weak, as it should be IMO, and CC units will always be hard-countered by skimmers. Anyway, I'm certainly planning to try Shrkes and haruspex spam, so we'll see how my opinions change after that.


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 12:41 am 
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Lists have dropped for Cancon so I'm free to announce what I'm fielding.

Here's my list below

Hive Fleet Dagon (4.71 TCMD forum)

==================================================

MAJOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [450]

Dagon Overlord

2 Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Bio-Attack (2 Dagon Haruspex),

Gaunts (5 Termagaunts),

Gaunts (5 Hormagaunts)

MAJOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [400]

Hive Tyrant,

2 Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Mycetic Spore,

Carnifex (3 Carnifex),

Gaunts (5 Hormagaunts)

MINOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [375]

Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Mycetic Spore,

Carnifex (3 Carnifex),

Gaunts (5 Hormagaunts)

Gaunts (5 Termagaunts),

MINOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [200]

Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Gaunts (5 Termagaunts),

Gaunts (5 Hormagaunts)

MINOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [200]

Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Gaunts (5 Termagaunts),

Gaunts (5 Hormagaunts)

MINOR SWARM (2-4 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [225]

Tyranid Warriors,

2 Zoanthrope,

Gaunts (5 Termagaunts),

Biovores (4 Biovores)

ATTACK SWARM (1-2 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [275]

Barbed Hierodule Prime,

Bio-Support (4 Dagon Exocrine)

ATTACK SWARM (1-2 INSTINCTIVE SWARMS) [275]

Barbed Hierodule Prime,

Bio-Support (3 Dagon Dactylis)

LICTOR SWARM [225]

5 Dagon Lictors

LICTOR SWARM [225]

5 Dagon Lictors

BIO-VESSEL [150]

Razorfiend (May carry 2 Mycetic Spores including cargo)


I've gone for the double drop formation, one with leader for potential combined assault.
A nice beefy ground BTS with the Supreme Comander
2 teleport lictors
Artilley battery swarm, which in hindsight after the weekend might have been better as more biovores
MW shooty swarm
Short range INd swarm with biovores
small swarms for running around. forcing the field and grabbing objective

But now all the lists have dropped, think I'm going to have a hard run of a weekend http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=88&t=34195


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 1:58 am 
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Take lots of notes. Looking forward to hearig how it goes.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 5:42 am 
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I'll attempt

It won't be full battle reports, but a few notes and a paragrah after each game


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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:07 am 
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They definitely need to have worse stats than Gaunts, but going from FF5+ to FF6+ is a halving of FF effectiveness. If they can't FF or CC, all they're really good for is getting Outnumbering in engagements.
I'm going to try running shrikes + gargoyles in the near future, but I'm not really sure what I'll be able to throw them at. 8 Gargoyles + 3 Shrikes will give me maybe 2 FF hits in a unit that doesn't get Inspiring and is probably too small for 2:1 outnumbering... that doesn't feel like it's going to achieve a great deal.


The key is to give opposing formations BMs first. If you have none of your own, you will probably win most Engages that you initiate by 3 (2 for BMs, 1 for outnumber) and perhaps some extra from a lucky hit.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 10:11 am 
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I've gone for the double drop formation, one with leader for potential combined assault.
A nice beefy ground BTS with the Supreme Comander
2 teleport lictors
Artilley battery swarm, which in hindsight after the weekend might have been better as more biovores
MW shooty swarm
Short range INd swarm with biovores
small swarms for running around. forcing the field and grabbing objective


Will be interesting to see how this list performs. Just make sure to use turn 1 to set up for turn 2, it's all to easy to try and engage the opponent piecemeal. Might even be a good idea to delay the drop until turn 2 to get the greatest effect.

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 Post subject: Re: Hive Fleet Dagon v4.71 and original F-ERC lists
PostPosted: Tue Jan 14, 2020 11:51 am 
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Battle report of my game with Mard written and posted.


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