kyussinchains wrote:
Without wanting to speak for steve, a typical list using the above synergies might look like this:
(IIRC steve54's tournament list)
Tacticals - hunter, razorback, supcom
Scouts - razorback
Scouts - razorback
Speeders
Terminators - chaplain
Devastators
Strike cruiser
Thunderhawk
Thunderhawk
Thunderbolts
Warhound
Warhound
if you look at the lists page on
the EpicUK site you can see all of the various lists used, Steve Gullick and Dave Thomas have both been particularly successful with codex marines, their various builds are available to peruse at your leisure rather than my typing them all out here
Subtract the thunderhawk, strike cruise and add one more formation of termies and assault and you have what I used to field.
I certainly don't think that vanilla marines are a 'weak' list but they not the powerhouse they used to be. Especially since newer variant marine list usually are just a little bit better than the ordinary
1. It's the oldest list, along with Steel Legion and Orks and it shows. All three armies have a few formations that have inefficient sizes and choices that you wouldn't normally take. For example: Predators would be fantastic if you could add 1-2 more to the formation. Dreadnoughts are rarely seen.
2. It's a very common army, and one almost all beginners start with. Hence everyone is pretty good and knowing the ins and out of how to beat them. Same as Steel Legion.
3. They might have the worst access to long range Ant-Tank or Titan weapons in any of the approved army lists. One of the reasons that twin warhounds are incredibly common in SM is it gives you the rare access to MW. Marines are on the back foot if they come up against a tank / war engine heavy opponent (like Vracks or Minervans.) At least Steel Legion have shadowswords, where as Vanilla Marines are stuck with the less efficient Predators Annihilators or terminator close combat.
All in all I don't think that vanilla space marines need to have anything immediately 'done' to fix them up. They are one of the best armies for a beginner to take. But we should take into account how the game meta has shifted with all the variant armies that have come online since Epic Armageddon was first released.