As always: when me and 1-2 more have tried the list in it's current state (with a legal list composition of course) highlighting the concerns that people seem to have about certain mechanics we will start changing stuff.
Having a crit as the result of rolling 1 for boilers is actually a good idea but not how it works in the current state.

Please, please, please take the list for a spin (with a legal list composition) and test your thoughts!!

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Well, if this game was about killing off formation your voncerns would be mine as well. But this game is about taking objectives which requires your troops to move around the board to meet them. And a big amount of DC haven't proven so far being helpfull at acomplishing that.

You're not supposed to be able to destroy or even break all the big formations when facing Gargants. Just like with the AMTL list you can beat it by picking off the smaller formations and maybe concentrating on one of the big dudes.

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There's some good meat there Vaaish. I'd love to see some match ups with AMTL and GBM!

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Mordoten, I realize that the game is about objectives, but unless I'm mistaken you can triple with gargants using the push'em harder rule. That gives you an effective 60cm movement and when placed at the edge of the 15cm deployment zone, you get over half the board in a single turn with a fairly low likelihood of losing one DC. With 4 gargants you have more than enough hard to kill bodies sitting on T&H objectives or even blitz to force a draw. Granted, it might take till turn 3 to do that failing activations, but they WILL get to the objectives so, yes, the DC is a concern.

My point though is that if it requires a completely tailored TK only list to manage Gargants, how can anyone expect to get anywhere with a more generalized list? If, by you're own admission, folks are only supposed to kill maybe one of the big guys, what happens when there's four of them and a couple of smaller formations? Kill one and you still have three left which is more than enough to claim objectives or protect the blitz. Kill the small stuff and there's still plenty left to handle objectives.

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-Vaaish

Not really buying the theoryhammer on this one at the moment, would like to see that put into practice.

When I play AMTL I don't try to kill 4 battle titans, no all-comers list is going to find that easy so you could just as easily turn that criticism back on the AMTL list. So I wouldn't try that against gargants either. You put BMs on them, you stick 100 point ranger formations in front of them, you target the weaker activations. It's no good being able to get to an objective on turn 3 by doubling every turn if the enemy has formations standing in your way. More often than not you're going to need to engage things, and that means you need to be close.

Time will tell what is an appropriate balance for the boiler rule or something like it. I myself expressed some concern about it, both in terms of theme (it seems wrong if the list only works if it is turned into a "fast gargant" list which begs the question should the gargant list be about winning in a different way?) and the rule itself (I argued for a worse penalty like crit, loses 5cm, or even immobilised). I think if it were used only sparingly it would not spoil the feel of the list, and IMO there are lots of ways we can accomplish that. Aside from increasing the penalty, it could be restricted to certain actions, once per action, once per game etc etc.

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Currently mid game, playing boilers cause a crit, so far one stompa is staggering around without a head and my great gargant is smouldering away

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Lost 2-0, pics to follow, game went as expected, weak units picked off, g.gargant failed to sustain two turns in a row, fort mobs very vulnerable to engagements (wraithguard in vampire killed one, mech guardians killed the other)

Didnt kill much at all, out-activated, outmanuevred and outflanked, dptdexys picked his battles well and outplayed the list

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Thanks forc the report Looking forward to seeing pics! :-)

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I'm assuming a more detailed post forthcoming (being late out that way) but I'd love to get a preview look at the lists

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List I used against Simon was

Epic-UK Iyanden

AVATAR [0]
SPIRIT HOST [475] 6 Wraithguard, Wraithseer
SPIRIT HOST [375] 6 Wraithguard, Spiritseer
GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350] Farseer, 4 Guardians, 3 Heavy Weapon Platforms, 4 Wave Serpents
GUARDIAN WARHOST (MOUNTED) [350] Farseer, 4 Guardians, 3 Heavy Weapon Platforms, 4 Wave Serpents
WAR WALKER TROUPE [200] 6 Warwalkers
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon 2 Firestorm
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon 2 Firestorm
FALCON TROUPE [250] 3 Falcon 2 Firestorm
NIGHTWINGS [300] 3 Nightwing Interceptors
VAMPIRE RAIDER [200]

Setup



End of turn 1


End of turn 2


End of game (steve had started packing terrain away before this shot was taken!)

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Turn 1

fightas strafed and killed 3 war walkers, nightwings strafed rightmost lootas, killed two boyz, lootas tried to double, failed, removed blast markers, guardians on far right marched to behind buildings, stompa doubled, pushed it arder and had it's head blow off from a crit (we played a crit on a roll of 1 rather than a point of damage) needing 7's to hit the wave serpents it scored a hit which was saved, 2 blast markers, falcons doubled and shot the stompa stripping shields, fightas went on CAP (actually first activation they shot down a nightwing), wraithguard on foot marched, g.gargant doubled (pushed 'arder twice and got a fire) and managed to draw a line of sight on wraithguard, killed two stands, remaining ork stuff advanced, vampire air assaulted lootas on right, wiped out for the loss of two wraithguard, one set of fightas mauled on flyoff down to 1 plane

Turn 2
eldar win strategy, guardians engage second loota mob, wipe out for a single stand, eldar retain twice and do some shooting at supa stompas, g.gargant fails to sustain fire at wraithguard BTS, takes BM and shoots killing two more stands including supcom, they break. headless stompa engages falcons with g.gargant in support, wipes them out but takes two damage, stompa is then broken by guardians engaging it

Turn 3
eldar win strategy, nightwings finish off stompa, second stompa is broken by wraithguard+falcons, g.gargant fails to single, takes bm and moves into eldar half, gargant fails to finish off wraithguard BTS, falcons claim T&H objectives, guardians march to blitz, eldar win 2-0

while it wasn't a massive loss, I never felt like I was in the game at all, my shooting was dire as I was either doubling, headless or failed to sustain at units in cover, taking crits for the boiler made me very cautious, luckily the fire in the great gargant went out at the end of the turn, but it could have been a different story

generally the list felt frustrating to play, it certainly didn't feel like AMTL does, where your opponent tends to cower in fear....

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Thanks for the report.

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Thanks for the report! :-)

Did you feel that a crit result instead if a DC-loss was too harsh?

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In the case of the stompa it was pretty bad as the head blew off, but overall it didn't feel too severe.....

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