@Uvenlord
If not summoned by the Warlock, it would not have done even that

I would suggest that what he means is more potential than anything. What it allowed for was potentially this

Win strat roll

Summon avatar

Warlock romps shadowsword putting blast marker on guard unit that previously didn't have one before moving back into position to support shots.
Retain 1 on 2+ to clipping engage guard unit shining spears using warlock to do actual damage
Retain again with avatar to engage warhound again using warlock for actual killing power

Net result 3 dead units before I've had a chance to move. Mick managed this without the avatar because I stupidly intermingled but the result would have been identical if I hadn't because of a comnination of triple retain, warlock support and being able to conveniently summon a combat monster right next to said warlock.

Just because it didn't go down that way doesn't mean it wouldn't have if micks opponent wasn't a muppet. That being the point. Warlock avatar combo is broken, if you can't see that you are either lying or too stupid to take full advantage, mick is neither.

As an Eldar player I would love it if the Warlock could summon the Avatar as it's an absolutely perfect fit. And that's exactly the reason why it should not be allowed

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Spot on Beefcake. In your game Mic massed Shining Spears nearby, so the Warlock summoning the Avatar nearby provides the potential for a number of assaults all initiating on a 1+ which can all mutually support each other as they do this.

Note,
• the Avatar can also "Command" other nearby formations including the Warlock if need be.
  
• the Warlock may also retain on a 1+ as it has Farsight, which is one of the reasons this is such a monster in assaults
• this big rolling assault is still possible even without the Avatar present, but it does require the Eldar player to move two or more formations nearby which changes the battlefield elsewhere while it also allows the opponent to react in some fashion.

My question to Mic was directed to the use of the Avatar; if he was not able to summon it from the Warlock, how would that have affected his choice of army list? (In this game, I suspect that it may not have arrived since the Guardians were so far back)

Perhaps I'm stupid but I still fail to see how this report shows that the Warlocks ability to summon the Avatar is a problem.
Any situation where the Warlock may support in three assaults is really bad for anyone.
The problem with the Warlock and the Avatar is that you always have a bonus unit with it to trigger at least another assault but I have yet to see one report where it is used...

Uvenlord, it is a combination of several things that make this so potent. Have you tried to do this yourself or better, tried to play against such a list? There are counters to this strategy, but this means that you are reacting to your opponents strategy rather than imposing your own which in turn means that your army may not be fighting at its best.

And what in THIS report shows that?
My suggestion is that you yourself post some reports where the Avatar changes the outcome of the game, because in the 10 or so games that PFE100 and Mic has posted it has done almost nothing.

LoL Uvenlord it looks like we should play each other, it just needs one of us to buy a plane ticket

I have not seen the Warlock call the Avatar (we have never allowed it) however I have seen the Warlock used in a triple retain enough times to know how deadly this is. Allowing the Warlock to summon the Avatar makes this so much easier by materialising a formation just where it is needed. However I also agree the opponent will try to avoid getting into this position. This clash of strategies is true of every game

However restating each other's position is not helping the debate.

Have no illusions, the Avatar Warlock combo would have decimated me except that he got a cheap one in with the shining spears.

Had they bounced the combo of triple retain and warlock would have done the job just as well. Mick simply played it safe because he knew he had the extra retain option.

I honestly don't know if you are being deliberately obstinate or just dense but anyone who reads the report can see that. If PFIE100 can't pull off this trick then he's just not as good as Mick.

So true!
(And I actually think we agree on the power and rules concerning the Warlock/Avatar it was just me being stubborn about my actual question)
Moving on to the next...

Ok, knowing I could launch the Avatar from the Warlock did not affect my choice of army composition in this case. Did it impact my initial deployment, you bet it did.
I deliberately marched the guardians down the opposite flank to the Warlock to ensure I had options as to where I had bought the Avatar in. Had I decided to launch from the guardians then it would have been at the top of turn 3 after they had spent two turns marching across the table.

However the arrival of the Avatar felt a little wasted as it just wasn't needed then with the Shinning spears already poised to conduct the assaults around the warlock. Yes it did offer fire support 3 dice at 4s and when it activated it broke a small artillery unit.

In hindsight I probably would have been better served summoning it turn 3 however.

Anyway, I think some more testing wouldn't hurt to further discussions.

Cheers

Mic