Hi,

Sorry didnt know where to post this....

Why is there a separate UK "system"? Why are the army lists different? Whats going on?

The reason I ask is that although I play epic 40k and netepic, and of course EA, I collect my forces generally for the EA lists then depending on what rules I feel like having a go at I tweak my armies and make them fit, or just make stuff up!

I just dont get why there is a splinter group in the UK doing its own thing. Not content with driving on the left, having different plugs to everyone else and having our own currency in Europe, we have to be awkward about epic too! I kind of like it...

Seriously though, whats it all about?

Steve
(moving back to the UK next year and hoping to perhaps get involved)

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

The UK tournament organisers wanted a different style for their army lists.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

It all came about due to the initial vibrant UK tournament scene. During the early days after support was initially dropped the main community, here, was looking at different lists and horrendously fragmented. A committee had been set up to continue the role of tournament organisation once the main person left for extended travelling. Issues were becoming visible with the lists that were already approved and changes were being proposed. The meta from the different communities was such that concerns raised in the UK were not issues in other countries.

So the tournament committee who had already put together a tournament pack for their tournaments started putting together their own lists, initially based on the original lists and later on the NetEA lists or from scratch.

Of course not everyone in the UK use these lists, but EpicUK tournaments do.

And finally I would take my hat off the French who did the whole thing, and have gone further, in a shorter time scale to the UK.

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Ok, so are the rules the same? Ie, i have the latest NetEA rules, downloaded and printed out, are they the same as NetEA UK ?

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

The rules are the rules for the most part (yes there's some various interpretations about fringe cases and conventions and FAQs but by and large not a big deal). NetEA, EpicUK, and EpicFR are based mainly around producing army lists.

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Is the UK group the splinter group? Or is the NetEA group the splinter group?
If a list is NetEA or Epic UK approved, then you'll get a good game. For competition, I'd trust the Epic UK lists more as they're stress-tested in harsher comps by (arguably) better players.

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In what way are they "harsher" comps?
Tested by "better" players?

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

I think that Carlos is suggesting that most of the E-UK lists have received a rigorous amount of testing due to the many tournaments that are held annually, the results of which are posted on their site. Whether this means they have been tested more than the Net-EA lists is debatable and the quality of players is also moot. There are certainly a number of excellent players, many of whom are part of the committee that forms the lists, and these do seem to work reasonably well in the UK tournament environment.

Personally I would really *love* to have a single unified set of lists that were entirely balanced and a single meta for the terrain and game play. Obviously not going to happen

However I do think that the "approved" lists are mostly balanced in all groups, to the point that differences in the way people define and use tarrain have more impact than the differences between the various "approved" lists.

So as others would say, do what works for you, and above all, have fun.

Thanks for clarifying that.

Im coming home finally next year after 3 years in Germany followed by a 4 year stint in Cyprus and may get into the epic scene far more.

Im really looking forward to it and hope to attend a tournament at some point although you guys will no doubt have to teach me the rules properly!!!

Anyway, have a great new year, and I look forward to much epicness in 2015.

Steve

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Little legions, my blog http://stevenkelly1.blogspot.com/

I regard this statement as an insult. You've just provided me with another reason why I'll never play an EUK list.

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

NetEA and EpicUK will never be combined into one entity for this basic reason: each group approaches Epic differently. EpicUK army lists are tailored for formal tournament play. NetEA army lists are tailored for casual tournaments and friendly play. I am not saying that one group is better than the other, it's a matter of personal taste and play style. I happen to prefer NetEA because of the variety and character of the varied lists. I have taken options that some players would scoff at, but the choice might fit the fluff of the army, or I think the formation is cool and I enjoy using it. EpicUK players might disagree with me and prefer their stream-lined lists for the strong tournament scene in the UK - and that my friends, is perfectly fine. More choice, not less, that's what makes the Epic community vibrant and creative. People need to accept the fact that not everyone is going to see everything the same way (nor should they) and stop insulting each other. We can disagree and remain friendly. Both groups should be able to get along and work together when possible because, in the end, we love the game. I repeat, we love the game. G.W. no longer supports this game, WE do. With all of the worries in our own lives and troubles around the world, the last thing we need is politics and rudeness to ruin a great hobby. The ability to share our tactics, modeling projects and battle reports with like-minded gamers from all over the world is wonderful. We here in the Northeast get to game with "Onyx" who has travelled all the way from Australia for the second time, this coming Saturday when we meet in Connecticut, USA. He's a great guy and I send my kindest regards to his mates down under. We've read posts of gamers from Hungary, Austria, Germany and the UK to name a few, who have travelled to other countries to play in Epic events - this is fantastic! Let's protect this cooperation and goodwill between us, and reject the petty squabbling and division.

Happy New Year

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...really....?

UK has somewhere between 10 and 20 large tournaments a year or so, attended by mostly the same regulars + quite a few others. I don't know how that compares to the US or Aus, but it's markedly more than the rest of Europe manages, and it showed at the EEC (to no one's surprise).

Regularly facing lots of different good players makes you a better player.

Testing by 'better' players doesn't make a list better or worse, but if you want a balanced game (using the GTS), then testing with better players will produce more balanced lists. I thought this was accepted generally in gaming, whether board/wargames or video gaming? One can argue that wargaming in the 41st millenium doesn't need or want balanced lists, or lists that can make competitions a perfect test of player skill. It's up for each gaming group to decide what they like best and what fits their playstyle.


Unless there are tactical geniuses in the groups in other countries, then law of averages would mean that more players playing more games together would make them even better. Common sense really. To be honest, I've never attended an Epic UK tournament but played the 'regulars' in other comps and in casual gaming. Compared to the level of play I read in this forum on some battle reports... it's miles (and E:A mile, so variable scale) apart, sorry. Once again, that's not better or worse but if you're going for GTS-balanced lists then it does matter.

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Haha, Dwarf Supremes comment is the funniest i've red in a long while!!

Didn't the english team wipe the floor with rest of Europe at the latest EC?

Coming from a competive sports background it's pretty obvious to me that the people that compete the most under a certain set of rules will be the best at uaingvthoose rules.

But maybe thats an offensive view to have...

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There are, like Stefan (brumbaer) at the EEC - he got the exact same results as RichardL, the top UK player (against the same opponents), and that was with a ground-based Space Marine army which regularly gets called out as underpowered.

But that's one player, the UK had 33% more points than the other teams, even the home team (who can travel matters greatly here, the UK left several of their best at home). The competition is just better in the UK.