Which goals were the Titans aiming for?

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T&H and BTS, otherwise win on points as most games.

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Thanks for the report mordoten! Good to see norrköping in action.

I think the plasma destructor also has to be viewed from the opponents point of view. How much fun is to face that kind of list. You´re just going to try and hide most of turn 1 and 2 as you know whatever you put forth will be utterly destroyed.

Thanks for posting the report, Mordoten.
I think it illustrated what I was trying to say about the triple plasma destructor build in its current 18 shot 2+ MW configuration. It matched our experiences have been locally, where entire formations are just removed one after the other, although at least with Leman Russ armour you get to have a couple of survivors. Most armies aren't so lucky in their vehicles

Regarding the game, I also feel like not recharging shields had a major impact on the outcome, but obviously hind-sight is 20/20. The other thing was that the deathstrikes and shadowsword weren't dealt with.

If the BTS Reaver dropped one plasma for either barrage missile or Death Strike of its own you'd be able to instantly deal with one of these threats no matter how well hidden, and I really expect you'd have a dramatically different outcome and a much more 1 sided game.
Plus you save 25pts

Hence the need* to change one of the Reavers, usually the BTS, into an indirect fire monster with 2 x 10BP Unlimited range disrupt missiles and a Deathstrike, for example.
The idea is "damned if you hide, damned if you don't", and the list makes it remarkably easy to do.




*for the purposes of playtesting!! I am not advocating broken lists for casual play.

We've already determined that the Support missiles are limited to carapace only and the restriction was left off unintentionally. You'd get one of those but not all three.

Look at this in context folks, nearly 1/3 of an army attacked and almost managed to take out a SINGLE enemy formation with one round of shooting. Despite the impressive shooting, they lost the game. Just curious... but would we have a conversation like this if marines dropped 825 points on a single enemy formation and nearly wiped it out? Or if Eldar used Pinpoint attacks and dropped in a Vampire full of Fire Dragons and did the same?

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Probably but then again it is very frightening (& annoying) when it is done to you.

As I've stated before and will probably again at some stage. I have no problem with the titans being able to put out 'stupid' amounts of firepower its what they are meant to do. I have a problem with cheap activation boosters which give the list a close parity to more conventional lists. I feel that the list should either be hit hard in small numbers (taking a formation down a turn is no problem to me) or weaker titans and more activations.

Just my standard rant

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If the marines could do it from 75cm away, yes we'd probably be having a conversation like this.

One Reaver with 3 Plasma Destructors does 15 Macroweapon hits. That's the equivalent damage output of 45 Firedragons.

(1 Reaver shooting 18 shots at 2+ averages 15 hits at a range of 75cm. 45 Firedragons firing 45 shots at 5+ averages 15 hits at a range of 15cm).

I hope the examples you chose help illustrate what the perceived issue is more clearly.

Of course they can. Air assault or teleport will likely lend the same result. Why? because of assault resolution hackdowns combined with shooting a broken formation. Same number of points, different applications. What difference does it make if you can shoot 75cm for a result or assault from off the board or teleport in or planetfall? Different means to the same outcome.

@tim:
any more annoying than losing an 825 point formation to a 200 point formation?

I can fix your activation concern by swapping out the Sentinels for Crusaders. Crusaders perform similarly but cost 50 points more per formation. it'll effectively mean titans are cheaper to fit in the two scout activations or you have fewer activations overall. I don't want to do it because I don't want to send the list back to developmental.

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I think thematically robots seem a better fit than sentinels. Doesn't really matter that much to me but your point about adding some points pressure around cheap activations is sound.

I don't think your statement about this change busting the core list down to Developmental holds water. There's nothing preventing you from having a concurrent Dev vs Approved list going. Take a look at Tau for example. You can have an approved and a trial change version as you want. There's nothing that "busts" the list back to Dev.

If you're meaning instead "I'm not really wanting to divert attention from testing the other AdMech lists because that's higher priority" then yeah, totally grok that line of reasoning.

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It's a bit of both. Adding robots is easy, but I don't want to put AMTL back to a place where we need to gather another X battle reports to maintain approved status especially when we're much better served by getting Skitarii approved with those resources. The other reason is I don't like concurrent lists going around. Adding in playtest changes to the current list for review when folks play is one thing, but adding a complete separate list just fractures focus when there's already a lot going on IMO.

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If the robots are anything like the ones in the EUK list, you have nothing to fear in adding them, they are hilariously rubbish... earlier this year Mark P attempted to engage a genestealer formation in a firefight, the robots were in ruins, 4 of them failed dangerous terrain tests and exploded, they missed with all their attacks, lost 3 to hackdowns and the last robot exploded to a dangerous terrain test running away....

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LOL well I think crusaders are a bit better than that They are part of the Skitarii list that's part of the AMTL pdf if you want to look them up. Still a formation size of 4 with similar armor to sentinels but a bit faster and better hitting potential.

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-Vaaish

I'm not sure this really works out as an even result.

Isn't Assault actually more of a crap shoot than shooting though(because the resolution result can still swing against you even if you kill quite a few)? After both of these outcomes, the titan is still sitting in the back field waiting to shoot again with it's shields up, whereas with assault your remaining troops are left in the breeze for a counter attack unless you spend more points to air extract them.

Depends. Clipping assault and wiping out all eligible targets should lend a very reliable result. It's also my experience that the titan isn't exactly in the back field and untouchable. Your own game with Tau required the titan to double to lay down the plasma fire and it took a pretty severe beating in return. There's definitely risk involved on both sides.

Regardless the point isn't exact parity, it's to show that a similar number of points can still end with a similar result. It just seems in this case the titans are being made the villain for achieving that result via shooting. It doesn't seem to matter that the deathstrike formation knocked out a reaver practically before the game began or that AMTL lost the game because they spent so many points on the PD they didn't have enough formations left to do anything to contribute to winning the game by t4. Heck, if that shadowsword hadn't whiffed the kill shot, AMTL would have ended the game with a single reaver on the board. All that seems to matter is that one AMTL activation nearly killed one minervan activation almost like the event simply occurred in a vacuum.

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