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The Great Points Formula Debate!

 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:24 am 
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Er, my bad. I should have better explained all of the values for a Warhound Titan.

Aside from the hit location / save value, a Warhound Titan costs 277 currently. Thus 277+424=701. When I said "dividing ... by 2" I meant dividing the 424 by 2, thus 424/2=212 and 277+212=489. As well, 424/4=106, thus 277+106=383. Sorry, I must have been more tired than I thought I was at that point.

In case you are wondering where the 277 comes from:
It's Type value, as a Titan, is 18; Move of 25cm is 5; and legs (1) times Agile (2) is 2; so 18*5*2=180 for move/type value.
It's CAF is +8, so that value is 8*4=32.
It has 2 Void Shields (10 ea so 20), Hard to Hit on Charge (15), and two Hardpoints (15 ea so 30) for a total of 65 for SA.
Thus 180+32+65=277.

Yeah, good point that people cannot give feedback until the data is there. I'll see what I can do about that. I can think of another reason that people may not be commenting on this system. They don't intend to use it, thus it doesn't matter to them. Heck, another reason could be that they don't care what the points values are, they just want to play the game.

@Bissler: Well, there is a complete listing of Ork formations a few posts up that you could build a force from. I'll see what I can do about posting a similar list for Marines ASAP, but it won't be tonight. Also, thanks for being willing to play-test things.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 4:57 am 
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Oh, just in case it was not obvious, when I did up the Ork formations I did not give anything for free. Companies did get the 10% discount, as noted, but no Command units were added without cost. In thinking about it, formations really shouldn't get their Command units free, as if they do then putting points values to them at all is rather, well, pointless.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:16 pm 
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Space Marine Formations
NOTE: all info not listed here is as per the Adeptus Astares PDF plus errata where appropriate. All of the following formations include the cost of their Command Units, but with the standard 10% discount, and all adjustments for Break Point and Morale score.

_Company: cost
Veteran: 1465
Terminator: 1995
Tactical: 950
Assault: 1155
Devastator: 1260
Battle: 1115
Scout: 760
Land Raider: 970
Bike: 515

_Special: cost (includes -20% for unique model(s) on Special card where appropriate)
Apothecary: 115
Chaplain: 145
Chapter Master: 200
Forward Observer: 130
Grey Knight: 565
Inquisitor: 230
Legion of the Damned: 385
Librarian: 130
Ordo-Malleus Inquisitor: 215
Techmarine: 115
Drop Pods: don't use, undetermined
Marine Dropship: 410
Titans: do not use, undetermined

_Support: cost
Assault: 370
Devastator: 420
Flamer: 315
Scout: 240
Tactical: 300
Terminator: 635
Terminator Assault: 610
Veteran: 485

Attack Bike: 240
Land Speeder (5): 370
Land Speeder Tornado (3): 220
Land Speeder Tornado (5): 345
Land Speeder Typhoon (3): 210
Land Speeder Typhoon (5): 330
Marine Bike: 190

Combined Dreadnought: varies
_Contemptor: 50 per
_Deredeo: 55 per
_Furibundus: 55 per
Mutilator Dreadnought: 210
Destroyer: 220
Punisher/Contemptor Mk2: 295
Robot: 235
Scatolo Combat (Flamer): 360
Scatolo Assault (AC): 255
Scatolo Heavy Support (ML & Lc): 235

Hunter AA: 295
Land Raider: 360
Land Raider Crusader: 330
Land Raider Helios: 495
Predator: 285
Razorback: 330
Sabre: 170
Vindicator: 270

Mole Mortar: 130
Rapier: 75
Tarantula: 210
Thudd Gun: 115

Whirlwind: 235

Marauder: 855
Thunderbolt: 705
Thunderhawk: 370


@Bissler: due to the sizable increases in cost for many models/formations, you might want to do a 3K game. Your choice of course. I would recommend that the Marine force include either a Tactical or Battle Company so you can see if Tactical Marines are more worth their cost in this version. Other than that, I don't know your mini collection, so I'll leave army building up to you and your opponent.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 1:47 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Er, my bad. I should have better explained all of the values for a Warhound Titan.

Aside from the hit location / save value, a Warhound Titan costs 277 currently. Thus 277+424=701. When I said "dividing ... by 2" I meant dividing the 424 by 2, thus 424/2=212 and 277+212=489. As well, 424/4=106, thus 277+106=383. Sorry, I must have been more tired than I thought I was at that point.

In case you are wondering where the 277 comes from:
It's Type value, as a Titan, is 18; Move of 25cm is 5; and legs (1) times Agile (2) is 2; so 18*5*2=180 for move/type value.
It's CAF is +8, so that value is 8*4=32.
It has 2 Void Shields (10 ea so 20), Hard to Hit on Charge (15), and two Hardpoints (15 ea so 30) for a total of 65 for SA.
Thus 180+32+65=277.

Yeah, good point that people cannot give feedback until the data is there. I'll see what I can do about that. I can think of another reason that people may not be commenting on this system. They don't intend to use it, thus it doesn't matter to them. Heck, another reason could be that they don't care what the points values are, they just want to play the game.

@Bissler: Well, there is a complete listing of Ork formations a few posts up that you could build a force from. I'll see what I can do about posting a similar list for Marines ASAP, but it won't be tonight. Also, thanks for being willing to play-test things.


Hi!

Thanks for the point break down. :)

I would worry about people being interested or not. One thing I have learned over the years that the actual "debate" or feedback will not occur until something tangible is made available for use.

A points system/formation overhaul is an old old desire. The problem was the old paradigm was "this or that", so the bar for ditching a legacy system was too high to overcome.

Now we are making this a "parallel" system without touching the legacy system (net epic gold), which means I expect a lot more people to try it since it doesn't replace the old one.

Net epic people tend to be more vocal when something is "wrong". Pretty quiet otherwise. So I wouldn't let any relative silence bother us. I take it as a good sign. ;D

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 3:55 am 
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primarch wrote:
A points system/formation overhaul is an old old desire. The problem was the old paradigm was "this or that", so the bar for ditching a legacy system was too high to overcome.

Now we are making this a "parallel" system without touching the legacy system (net epic gold), which means I expect a lot more people to try it since it doesn't replace the old one.

Net epic people tend to be more vocal when something is "wrong". Pretty quiet otherwise. So I wouldn't let any relative silence bother us. I take it as a good sign. ;D

Primarch


Those are very good points, especially the last one. Heck, that's a general tendency for Humans, or at least for the majority of people that I've known so far.

Heh, it's probably just the 'artist' in me thinking that it just can't be good enough yet.

Oh, I had a thought the other day. I've kind of taken over the development on your system. I hope that's not a problem for you, and I apologize if it is. I'm guessing it isn't, otherwise you'd have said something a while back. At least, I hope you would have. Still, just wanted to get that out there.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 7:19 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
primarch wrote:
A points system/formation overhaul is an old old desire. The problem was the old paradigm was "this or that", so the bar for ditching a legacy system was too high to overcome.

Now we are making this a "parallel" system without touching the legacy system (net epic gold), which means I expect a lot more people to try it since it doesn't replace the old one.

Net epic people tend to be more vocal when something is "wrong". Pretty quiet otherwise. So I wouldn't let any relative silence bother us. I take it as a good sign. ;D

Primarch


Those are very good points, especially the last one. Heck, that's a general tendency for Humans, or at least for the majority of people that I've known so far.

Heh, it's probably just the 'artist' in me thinking that it just can't be good enough yet.

Oh, I had a thought the other day. I've kind of taken over the development on your system. I hope that's not a problem for you, and I apologize if it is. I'm guessing it isn't, otherwise you'd have said something a while back. At least, I hope you would have. Still, just wanted to get that out there.


Hi!

Indeed it is human nature to speak up when something is not to your licking! ;D

No problems Magnus on taking command on this! I am very glad and grateful you did since you have a better mathematical grasp on probability and number distribution that I do. :)

Besides I really like what you have come up with, as well as your solutions. I want this formula to be as mathematically tight and precise as can be achieved and your doing that! :)

I am also excited with Mattman's proposals. A game should really evolve with the times and the formation rules (as well as unit stats) should reflect what the fluff and the main game seem to show.

I believe we have served tradition well in preserving a unchangeable net epic version in Gold. There fore I think we are free to experiment and see where it takes us in Platinum.

However I think the formula and what we learn from it will benefit any version. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:05 pm 
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Agreed. Once the formula is in and done (that may be a while yet), it should be included in whatever "Options" book gets made for Gold.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Thu Apr 03, 2014 11:18 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
Agreed. Once the formula is in and done (that may be a while yet), it should be included in whatever "Options" book gets made for Gold.


Hi!

That is precisely what I had in mind. ;)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 1:35 am 
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Hi!

Since I am redirecting my free time (for as long as hold out) to all things net epic, is there anything I can do to Magnus to help with the unit cost formulations?

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:00 am 
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I'm going to presume you were asking if there is anything you can do FOR Magnus to help, as otherwise could be a bit too personal... ;)


At this point I'm primarily going through the various other Factions looking for odd and unique Special Abilities, figuring out where they would apply (CAF, move, etc), and figuring out what modifier / value to give them. This is a bit fiddly, and I'm guessing at a lot of things.

For example, when going through the Ork list to generate the list above, I decided to use a value of 10 for the SA of Deathrolla. I don't recall my exact reasoning anymore, but 10 is the 'average' value for a general SA at the moment. Is this the 'right' value? I don't know.

I suppose if you wanted to look through any of the other Factions' SA lists and make recommendations as to what modifier they might adjust and what value each might have, it could save me a little time here and there. I'd still be looking at each one anyway, but it would give me something to start with. Especially any unit that has an entry of "Special" in it's SA column.

On that note, in the Eldar listing, the Bonesinger has a entry of Special, but consulting it's individual entry, the unit has no special rules that are not otherwise accounted for. Was it intended to have some?

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Tue Apr 08, 2014 3:46 pm 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I'm going to presume you were asking if there is anything you can do FOR Magnus to help, as otherwise could be a bit too personal... ;)


At this point I'm primarily going through the various other Factions looking for odd and unique Special Abilities, figuring out where they would apply (CAF, move, etc), and figuring out what modifier / value to give them. This is a bit fiddly, and I'm guessing at a lot of things.

For example, when going through the Ork list to generate the list above, I decided to use a value of 10 for the SA of Deathrolla. I don't recall my exact reasoning anymore, but 10 is the 'average' value for a general SA at the moment. Is this the 'right' value? I don't know.

I suppose if you wanted to look through any of the other Factions' SA lists and make recommendations as to what modifier they might adjust and what value each might have, it could save me a little time here and there. I'd still be looking at each one anyway, but it would give me something to start with. Especially any unit that has an entry of "Special" in it's SA column.

On that note, in the Eldar listing, the Bonesinger has a entry of Special, but consulting it's individual entry, the unit has no special rules that are not otherwise accounted for. Was it intended to have some?



Hi!

I'll start with the Eldar list and post here any thoughts. I'm not sure about the bonesinger if its an omission or mistake, but I'll look into it. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 12:27 am 
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I've been looking at Titan Legions in general, and Titan weapons in specific, over the last few days. It occurred to me that if we are going to have an alternate version of the Plasma Destructor, then why not also have alternate versions of the two lighter Plasma weapons. That is, versions that do not have the restrictions. Admittedly, the restrictions on those two versions are not as big of a burden, but it's the principle. I'll post the list later, as I'm still typing things up.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 3:12 am 
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MagnusIlluminus wrote:
I've been looking at Titan Legions in general, and Titan weapons in specific, over the last few days. It occurred to me that if we are going to have an alternate version of the Plasma Destructor, then why not also have alternate versions of the two lighter Plasma weapons. That is, versions that do not have the restrictions. Admittedly, the restrictions on those two versions are not as big of a burden, but it's the principle. I'll post the list later, as I'm still typing things up.


Hi!

Everything is on the table for Platinum, so post your ideas. :)

Primarch

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 5:00 am 
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Oh, basically the same as with the Plasma Destructor.

The self-powered Plasma Blastgun gets to have 2 attacks every turn regardless of it's orders, and the self-powered Plasma Cannon may be fired along with other weapons. Each one just has a higher cost to compensate.

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 Post subject: Re: The Great Points Formula Debate!
PostPosted: Wed Apr 30, 2014 6:11 am 
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The system as I currently have it is as follows: note that I keep tweaking things as I go, so this is NOT final by any means. However, you (primarch) asked for it to be posted in it's current state.
_______________________

Adjusted Unit costs system

The total cost of a unit is made up from several factors, each based on a basic stat of the unit. These stats are:

A: Movement (how fast the unit can move modified by how it interacts with terrain and other units)
B: Armor Save (how resistant the unit is to taking damage)
C: Close Assault Factor: CAF (how good the unit is in Close Combat)
D: Ranged Weapons (shooting foes)
E: other (any other Special Ability not already taken into account above)

Calculated costs for each of these stats are added together to determine the final cost of the unit. No rounding of values takes place until the final value for the Formation is determined and then only to the nearest multiple of 5.

A: Movement

Movement cost consists of three factors. Unit Type, Movement rate, and Move type. Once the values for each of these is determined, they are multipled together.

_ Unit Type

The Unit type cost consists of two factors: pinning and movement restrictions.

The Unit Type categories for pinning in NetEpic Gold are:

1. Infantry & Light Artillery
2. Cavalry & Walkers
3. Vehicle & Heavy Artillery (also includes most Flyers, except any that specify otherwise)
4. Super Heavy & Knights
5. Praetorians & Titans

Since each category can pin that category and any lower, the cost for each level is that level's number and the numbers of each lower level added together. Thus Pinning costs are:

Infantry & Light Artillery: 1
Cavalry & Walkers: 3 (1+2)
Vehicle & Heavy Artillery: 6
Super Heavy & Knight: 10
Praetorian & Titan: 15

Movement Restrictions are arranged slightly differently. Based on the chart on page 30 of the NetEpic Gold pdf, counting each green box as +1 and each red box as -1 (yellow are 0), costs are:

Infantry & Light Artillery: 2 (3 Green, 1 Red)
Cavalry, Walker, & Knight: -1 (1 Green, 2 Red)
Vehicles & Heavy Artillery: -4 (1 Green, 5 Red)
Titans & Praetorians: 3 (7 Green, 4 Red)

I'm currently including Super Heavy and Flyers in the 'Vehicles' category. The chart on page 30 does not specify where Super Heavy should be included.

Thus, assuming we are going to restrict people to using the Types in NetEpic Gold*, the costs are as follows. [*: If someone really wants to make up a new type, it shouldn't be a problem. They would just have to specify which boxes of the chart on page 30 are which colors, determine which pinning class it occupies, and determine cost from there.]

Infantry & Light Artillery: 3 (1+2)
Cavalry & Walker: 2 (3-1)
Vehicle & Heavy Artillery: 2 (6-4)
Super Heavy: 6 (10-4)
Knight: 9 (10-1)
Praetorian & Titan: 18 (15+3)

_ Movement rate.

This value is very simple to determine. Simply take the Move of the unit in cm and divide by 5. To put that another way, this value is 1 point per 5cm of Move.

_ Movement Type

The manner in which the unit interacts with the terrain it travels over is very important. Most units use wheels, tracks, legs, or some combination thereof. All units have a base Move Type value of 1. The value is then multiplied by any modifiers.

_Modifiers:
Jump: 1.5
Skimmer: 2
Flyer: 3
Floater: 3
Agile: 2
Tunneler: 1.5
Command: 2

As examples of Movement values, let's consider a Tactical Marine squad, a Land Speeder, and a Thunderbolt.

The Tactical Marine is Infantry (3), with a Move of 10cm (2), and walks (1), thus its Move value is 3 times 2 times 1 for a total of 6.

The Land Speeder is Cavalry (2), with a Move of 30cm (6), and is a Skimmer (2). Its Move value is 2 times 6 times 2 for a total of 24.

The Thundebolt is a Vehicle (2), with a Move of 100cm (20), and is a Flyer (3). Its Move value is 2 times 20 times 3 for a total of 120!


B: Armor Save

The Armor Save value is represented by the number of higher on 1d6 that the Unit needs to roll in order to not take damage from a successful attack on it. The value of this factor is the number of points of such Save multiplied by 4 for a normal Save or by 8 for a Fixed Save. If the unit has both a normal and a Fixed save, add the values together. As examples, a Save listed as "6+" would have a value of 4; a Save listed as "4+" would be 12; a Save listed as "4+/Fixed 6+" would be 20 (12 for the normal, and 8 for the Fixed). The value is then multiplied by any modifiers.

_ Modifiers:
All-Around Armor: *2
Super Heavy: *1.5
Imperial Knight Shield: *1.25


C: CAF

The CAF is added to the unit's roll in Close Combat. Take the CAF and multiply by 4 to determine this value. The value is then multiplied by any modifiers.

_ CAF modifiers:
Gains +1d6 vs Infantry, Cavalry, & non-robotic Light Artillery that do not have a Fixed armor save AND loses 1d6 vs all others: 1.1 (Striking Scorpion)
Auto kill (on 5+) any charged Infantry, Cavalry, & non-robotic Light Artillery that do not have a Fixed armor save: 1.2 (Howling Banshee)
Elite: 1.5
Fear: 1.5
Terror: 2
Beast of Nurgle Special: 2
Daemonette Special: 2
reroll once per encounter: 2 (Harlequin)
Imperial Shock Lance: 1.75


D: Ranged Attacks

The value for Ranged attacks has five factors per weapon system. Each Weapon System (one line in the stat block) has it's own value calculated independently from the other weapon(s). The factors are: Number of Attacks; Range; To Hit number; TSM; other modifiers. Once these factors are known they are then multiplied together to find the final value for that weapon system.

Weapons that use a Template replace their Range value (and Attacks if not a number of Barrage Points) with the following value:
6cm Barrage: 4
12cm Barrage: 12
Small Teardrop: 5
Large Teardrop: 15

_ Number of Attacks

The value for this is the base value for each Weapon System. For every attack the value is 4 points. If instead of a number, the attack uses a Barrage template, the value is 4 points per BP. If the number of BP is determined by rolling the Artillery die, then the value is 20 (2 + 4 + 6 + 8 + 10 + 0, divided by 6 equals 5, times 4/BP is 20).

_ Range

The distance that a weapon system can hit targets within is very important. The default Range is considered to be 50cm, thus the Range (in cm) is divided by 50 to find the value for this factor. Standard Ranges and their values are:

15cm: 0.3
25cm: 0.5
35cm: 0.7
50cm: 1
75cm: 1.5
100cm: 2
150cm: 3
200cm: 4
LOS: 6

While these cover all existing, known units to date, there is nothing stopping players creating units with other Range values. Just divide your chosen Range by 50 to find its value. Minimum Range value is 0.1. Models that drop Barrages under them as they Fly overhead have a Range value of 1.

_ To Hit Number

This is shown as the lowest number that the attacker needs to roll on 1d6 in order to hit the target, ignoring situational modifiers. This value is also a multiplier. For this purpose, a 5+ is considered baseline, thus values are:

6+ 0.5
5+ 1
4+ 1.5
3+ 2
2+ 3
Auto: 4

_ TSM (Total Save Modifier)

This shows how powerful the attack is, adjusting the target's roll to Save by the amount listed. The weakest attack worth representing at this scale has a 0 TSM, and this is considered the baseline. Thus values are:

0: 1
-1: 2
-2: 3
-3: 4
-4: 5
-5: 6
etc
No save allowed: 8

_ Other weapon modifiers

AA: 2
all around: has 360 deg arc when normal unit Type doesn't: 1.5
always FF/Command: 1.5
Barrage template and the BP can be combined with other like units in the same detachment: 1.5
Damages Buildings: 1.5
Destroys Buildings: 2
Fire on the Fly: 1.5
Ignores Cover: 1.5
Linked: required to fire at same target as another Weapon System (affects both Systems): 0.5
Mole Mortar Special: 1.5
Ordo-Malleus Special: 2
Penetrating: number plus 1 eqauls value (as with TSM)
Psychic: 1.5
Quickdraw: 1.5
RoF n: n (if RoF is 2, then mod is 2, if 4 then 4, etc)
Single-shot weapon: 0.1 per shot (for example, the six missile AMO Golgotha is *0.6)
Thudd Gun Special: 2
Turret: 1.5

Point Defense (PDx): These are an additional Weapon System. There are two different costs per point of PD. This is because some Unit Types have 360 degree fire arcs and some do not, but PD always fires 360. [See Firing Arc section and chart on page 34 of the NetEpic Gold rules PDF.] Thus, for units that already have 360 fire arc, the cost is 1.35 (4 x0.3 (range) x0.5 (hit on 6+) x1.5 (always FF) x1.5 (fire during movement phase) ), whereas for units that do not the cost is 2.025 (as other plus x1.5 (360 arc) ).


Examples of Ranged Weapon System cost determination. For these examples, we will again look at the Marine Tactical squad, a Marine Land Speeder, and a Marine Thunderbolt.

The Tactical squad uses Bolters. These give 1 attack (value 4) to a Range of 50cm (value 1) with a To Hit of 5+ (value 1) and 0 TSM (value 1). Thus 4 times 1 times 1 times 1 equals 4.

The Land Speeder also has one Weapon System, which is a Multi-Melta. It has 1 attack (4) to a Range of 25cm (0.5) with a To Hit of 3+ (2) and a -2 TSM (3). Thus 4 x0.5 x2 x3 equals 12.

The Thunderbolt has two Weapon Systems. The first is Autocannon. It has 3 attacks (3x4=12) to a Range of 25cm (0.5) with a To Hit of 5+ (1) and a -1 TSM (2). Thus 12 x0.5 x1 x2 equals 12. The second is Rockets. They have a Barrage of 4 BP (4x4=16) that does not combine (1) to a Range of 25cm (0.5) with a To Hit of 5+ (1) and a -1 TSM (2). Thus 16 x1 x0.5 x1 x2 equals 16.


Titan Weapon modifiers: (if a modifier is different here then in the general modifiers, use the one listed here for any Titan or Praetorian weapon)

One-Shot weapon: *0.1
1d6 more Barrages: *3
+1d6 to CAF: +(3.5*4) to CAF cost
+X to CAF: +X*4 to CAF cost
Penetrating 1: *1.5
Penetrating 2: *2
Penetrating 3: *2.5
etc
Recharge Attacks based on Orders: *0.5
May not fire other weapons: *0.5
May not fire other weapons or move: *0.25
Grab: *1.5
Knockdown: *1.5
no indirect fire: *0.5
Vortex: *4
restricted to 30 deg arc: *0.33
move/2: *0.5 (also reduces the value of the Titan's Movement value: if a Warlord: Subtract 27 from final weapon value. The -27 is NOT a multiplier.)
Head modification (Warlord only): -4 to Save value


E: Special Abilities

The values for the following abilites are not multipliers.

Artificial Intelligence - 2 and see Morale
Chapter Master Special - 15
Combat Leader - 10
Combat Engineer - 10
Daemon Hunter - 10
Deathrolla - 10
Deep Strike - 20
Forward Observer Special - 10
Hard to Hit - 15
Hit & Run - 10
Headquarters (HQ) - 10
Immune Ethereal Psychic - 15
Infiltration - 20
Inorganic - 5
Inquisitor Special - 15
Inspirational - 10
Medic - 15
Mechanic - 15
Multiple Wounds - 20 per wound
Power Shield - 5 per Shield
Psychic Save 6+ - 5
Psychic Save 5+ - 10
Psychic Save 4+ - 15
Psyker - 20
Regeneration - 20
Robotic - see morale
Sniper - 20
Static Artillery - see morale
Stealth - 20
Teleport - 20
Titan Weapon Hardpoint (Praetorian or Titan only) - 15 per
Transport - 4 points per model/capacity of transport
- Open-Top Vehicle - reduce cost by -2 per slot
- may carry Vehicles as three slots - increases cost by +2 per slot
- may carry models larger than Vehicle - increase cost by +2 per slot
Void Shield - 10 per shield


Let's complete the calculations for the three units above.

The Tactical Marine has a Move value of 6; has a Save of 5+, value is 8; CAF of 2, value 8; Weapon System value of 4; Morale value of 8; no Special Abilities for a total cost of 34 which rounds to 35.

The Land Speeder has a Move value of 24; Save of 5+, value 8; CAF of 3, value 12; Weapon System value 12; Morale value 8; for a total cost of 64, rounds to 65.

The Thunderbolt has a Move value of 120; Save of 4+, value 12; CAF of 4, value 16; Weapon System values of 12 & 16; Morale value 8; for a total of 184, rounds to 185.


Formation building

_ Break Point:
Adjust the cost of a formation by the percentage that the Break Point varies from 50%. For example, a formation with three models generally has a BP of 2. As this is 66% of the formation, the cost is adjusted by +16%.

_ Morale:
The default Morale value is 4 (Guardsman / Ork) so that the few formations with values of 5 would get a 10% discount, whereas those with better values would cost more in increments of 10%. Thus:
Morale 5: -10%
Morale 4: no change
Morale 3: +10%
Morale 2: +20%
Morale 1: +30%
Fearless, AI or Morale "--": +40%
Independent -10%
Static Artillery -10%
Fearless vs one Faction (usually Chaos): +20% (Harlequin)

_ Command/Orders:
Models with Robotic or Independent ignore any proximity discount.
May only be given orders if within 25cm of Command unit: -10% (Guard)
May only be given orders if within 15cm of Command unit: -15% (Tyranid)
May only be given orders if within 10cm of Command unit: -20% (Ork, Tz Automation)
Chaos Android Special: -10%
Non-default Instinctive behavior: -10% (Automation, Ork, Tyranid, Waystone Spirit)
Duplicates orders of ally within 10cm: -10% (Waystone Spirit)
- Ally must be living: -5% (Waystone Spirit)
- May be given orders if within 10cm of Command unit: +5% (Waystone Spirit)

_ Formation type:

A Company receives a 10% discount on the cost of the Formations that comprise it. This discount applies to any Command or HQ models.

A Special Formation receives a 20% discount to the final formation cost IF the primary model (excluding transport) is not found in any other formation in that Faction. If it does contain non-unique non-transport models, it receives a discount just because of being a Special, but is just 10% in that case, and in any event should have some difference from a Support Formation.

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