What are people's thoughts on the Wardens? I'd like to be able to represent these models:







And these guys:





Those stats make this guy the black sheep of the family though:

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Stats look decent, the old warden models are some of my faves, glad to see them getting some love!

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No stats for the proxy model please! It's quad guns count as the multi lasers from the first model perfectly well.

Looking at the angles of the guns I would say it's the multi-lasers that should be the AA weapons (like on titans). The mounts for them are clearly skyward pointing, unlike the missile launcher which can only angle up so far.

Make stats for the 3rd old Warden's armament too! Just make it a big laser, perhaps 45-60cm AT2+.

I'd make the missile launcher on the knight a bit longer ranged and a proper barrage too say 45cm BP1. To my mind Wardens are old slower knights that ward off aircraft and have good guns for their size. If they're losing the CC MW other knights have they should really get more powerful guns to compare to the loss of that and the battlecannon.

You mean the one multi-laser pointing into the sky, and the one multi-laser pointing into the ground at the Warden's feet? As much as I love the old models, I'd stick with the spirit of the 1.3/1.4 list rather than extrapolating stats from a very old sculpt suffering from technical design limitations.



I'd just treat it as a different variant of the demolisher cannon-armed Warden; figure the heavy bolters are integrally mounted somewhere. Keeps it simple.

I'm ok with treating the old missile warden as the ground-based AA for a Knights force. It could serve as a barrage weapon too... but I don't know why I'd ever bother fielding one that way compared to Castellans and Crusaders as a more effective alternative, and with field artillery as a lower-cost alternative. It's largely irrelevant as a direct-fire BP weapons platform with those alternatives.

I have no real preference either way on separating out "Wardens" and "Gardiens" (from the French Knight proxy line). For simplicity's sake, I'd suggest combining the two, although if that were to happen, I'd say the debate would appropriately rest on multilasers vs. twin-linked autocannon. Also in that case, just use the quad launcher armament as the alternative stat line instead of 1BP for the missile launcher. And yes, I mean treat the quad-gun on the Gardien and a non-AA missile pod both as quad launchers. That would make it more of a mobile light field artillery piece and might actually make it worth taking instead of Castellans/Crusaders or arty... but I'd still probably just use the AA option.

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Tbh I hadn't noticed the separate stats for the french knights, don't like that personally, just make stats for a generic knight warden and let everyone use whatever models they like... (game of abstraction and all that... )

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*I may be entirely wrong, i've never played TL/SM and have none of the source documents for this*

Did castellans/crusaders AND wardens ever co-exist at the same time in the fluff?
I assumed they were pretty much the same role (heavy weapon defence knights) and the revised knight designs/range just re-named them and split into two named versions.

So, crusaders and castellans would equate to wardens, just in a more modern design with a name split for two different types. In which case, just use old wardens models as crusader/castellans proxies. Wardnes are knight gun platforms, they disappear from range to be replaced by cast/crus … which are also big gun platforms, are they the same thing under different names?

as i say, i have nothing to back that line of reasoning up, was just my thought looking at the model range and dates in isolation!


Assuming i've taken totally the wrong track with the above: no stats for proxies and one generic stat set for all wardens please

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The old Wardens indeed weren't mentioned in SM/TL. There's the need for an AA Knight somewhere, so as to be able to run all Knight armies. I think that's one reason for including the Wardens for that role, the old retired knights looking out for their comrades that way.

That said I would be fine with leaving them out, using the Castellan's multi-barrelled gun as AA and counting Wardens as Crusaders and Castellans (the models are a little small but so is a plastic beetle-back compared to a metal Lucius Walrlord). That could well be the best option for the list.

Since Knights can apparently be a full 40k army of their own they'll need an AA unit in 40k with all the flyers these days and I suspect it's more likely to be an AA weapon on the Castallan or Crusader than for them to resurrect the Warden idea.

Old list had ground based AA guns (ballista) and thunderbolts, not sure it really needed an AA knight as well. It's not as if there is an AA hole to fill.

Not trying to stop anyone using the minis – can still use wardens as Cas/Crus, the models have the right class of weaponry on them after all. They are very characterful minis.

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Anyone wanna point me in the direction of the knight list for me to peruse? Really thinking of doing an army now GW have made a 40k scale one, but I don't now where to look. Cheers.

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Part of what triggered this whole conversation (or sequence of threads, really), was trying to get the existing knight list into shape for some sort of more general release. The current Army Compendium (2014 edition), has version 1.3 of the list. There is a 1.4-beta version of the list which changes quite a number of things. Dave has stepped up to drive things, and people are now trying to hash out the differences between the various existing lists, the historical precedents from the SM/TL and earlier rule sets, and the new 40k rules which have leaked all over the internet.

If you wanted to play right now, the 1.3 list in the compendium is the one that has the longest amount of testing. With the new interest based on the 40k release, I imagine the new version of the list will probably shape up over the next few weeks and be ready for more serious play testing within a month or two.

Yes, stats for Wardens, please. I'm not sold on Gardiens needing their own stats.

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I agree with just Warden stats, gardiens doesn't need them.

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