Yes the very edge of the template has to be in LoS and Range not the whole template.

Worth noting; you can't target a patch of empty ground in order to hit a unit that's 52cm away - at least one unit must be within 45cm in order for you to be able to place the template so that it hits another unit 52cm away...

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Cheers guys, that clears it up nicely. Quite a useful little thread in the end!

So that Aeonic Orb isn't *quite* as bad as I thought...

I agree, a great thread.

Also, agree that the barrage rules could use an update. IMHO I think that they should be written as a list of instructions/steps on how to complete a barrage attack.

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even more simply you should just get a number of shots equal to BP rating, no templates, and allocate hits front to back as in normal shooting, they could still fire indirectly

that way it keeps the scaling constant and removes the annoying barrage sniping, range stretching, and shooting around corners....

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That does make large barrages firing indirect disproportionately more effective against small formations mind you.
A depleted BTS on the run would be toast.

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as it should be.....

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All or nothing units like the aforementioned Aeonic Orb would be really scary then... 12 shots plus the 3 BMs just for coming under fire.

I'm not necessarily opposed to the idea but it would have other effects like not causing formations to spread out and surely the unit costs would need to be reviewed, even if it was only to decide to leave them as is?

I'll have to check the rules on that later; I have seen it played that the barrage can be centred over empty ground when targetting a unit more distant than the firing model's range as long as the template still touched the target.

@kys - the use of a template rather than a fixed amout of shots is one of the most important aspects of barrage weapons - they can force the opponent to spread out rather than run a series of densely packed formations.
That's often as useful as their ability to actually cause damage.

One thing that many people miss is that when shooting a barrage, the initial range and LoS are made from all firing units to *a single enemy UNIT*. This is often ignored if the entire formation is in range, but can have an impact at the extreme range of shooting or when the target formation is partly obscured by terrain.

From the diagrams, when shooting at formation "x" this unit would have to be one of a group of 4 on the left hand side. Shooting at "y" it would have to be one of the group of 4 units at the rear of the formation - if the front units of the group were in range, or one of the two units on the Left hand side of the formation if the "grey square" is deemed to obscure the rest of the formation. If visible, all the units in formation "z" can be touched by a single template.

As discussed, subsequent templates

• must touch the first,
• must be placed to cover other units in the formation,
• may only cover units from other formations if no units from the original formation can be covered.

Formation "z" demonstrates this point and shows that potentially the remaining template(s) could catch units from nearby formations, while it would be much less likely if shooting at the other formations (as Dptexys points out)

And yes, Barrages can "shoot round corners" and beyond the maximum range of the weapon through placing subsequent templates in these locations - as I found out when facing a Mega Gargant in a tourney . . .

In this case, if the "grey square" is deemed to obscure most of formation "y", the initial template could be placed to touch the three large units in "y" (and actually be placed beyond LoS provided it touches the target unit); the second would catch the rearmost units, while the third template might just be able to clip formation "z" or "x" whilst leaving two units from "y" untouched because they are beyond reach.

How do people play the cover modifier for direct-fire barrage-round-corners?



Let's say there is a formation of predators behind a building - but not "in" any terrain feature. The shooting unit can see one of these tanks but it is partially obscured by the building. The rest of the predators are hidden from view. The template must be placed so that it covers the single visible tank, and as many of the other tanks as possible. Let's say that all four tanks are covered.

When rolling to hit each unit, do you apply the "partially obscured" -1 to hit modifier?
A: No, the LOS rules for barrage are different and the -1 to hit does not apply for intervening terrain. The -1 to hit would thus only be granted to infantry who are "in" a terrain feature.
B: Only apply the -1 for the first predator. By the letter of the rules, this is the only one that is "partially obscured".
C: Apply the -1 to all 4 units, since they are all obscured to some degree.
D: Something else.

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From checking the rules, I was going to say that models under the initial template still need to follow the resrtictions of range and LoS so this would be a moot point for a single template barrage. Seems fairly clear cut, but the FAQ seems to contradict this with the rule that only one model needs to be in Range and LoS. Doesn't that break the intention of stopping artillery from sniping important units, at least with single template barrages? I wouldn't even think of checking the FAQ for that to be honest, the original rules seem clear. I'm sure this was deliberate but it could easily be missed, I'm guessing the GW IP Police would jump on us if we changed the wording actually in the rules themselves? With multiple templates I can see why it might make sense to have the barrage spread out of range and LoS, was this thinking just back ported to apply to single templates as well?

Anyway, none of this actually addresses Kyrt's question. If the template had to be centered on the initial tank I could see the argument for -1 for the first tank, no modifier for the others? But it doesn't so I'm not so sure, probably have to be -1 for all of them given epic's "rounding up" philosophy...

I would go with B, possibly C, either way I would shoot an email to GW to get an answer and maybe update the FAQ.

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I'm fairly sure the answer, if there was one, would be "I'm sorry, I don't know which bit of the Warhammer 40,000 rules you are referring to."

Any FAQ amendments are NetEA's to make, and would arise from the type of discussion we're having right now

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I believe the answer is "D" something else.
For all weapons, to shoot directly at the target formation you need to have LoS and range to unit(s) in that formation. But after this, the rules for "normal" weapons differ from "Barrage" weapons.

• For normal weapons, the player must declare for each weapon type whether it is shooting at units in cover or out of cover (so all AP, or AT, or MW shooting). The -1 applies if shooting at any enemy unit that is in cover or partially obscured to *all* firing units.
  Note, hits would be allocated to *all* enemy of the target type that are in range and LoS of at least one firer.
  
  
• If using barrage template, the 'target unit' must be covered, so must be 'seen' by all firers. However, when rolling for hits under the template, you dice for each unit separately considering the situation of each; three are in or behind cover and get the -1, potentially the 'target unit' may also get the -1 if it was partially obscured.
  (so almost "c", but not quite)