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Apologia Primarchica

 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:20 am 
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Primarch has a pretty good record with this Epic/Retail stuff.  As long as I can call the Trolls (as I have been doing for over 10 years) and get Epic delivered to my door, I don't have a problem with it.  Very little G/W stuff is carried at the shops in my hometown, let alone Epic ! :o   I don't think G/W believes E:A is going to be the "Main Event" or ever will ...  Just so they give it enough support to keep it alive and I (we) can get it through MO, I feel is the best we can hope for ...  :cool:

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 8:08 am 
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The local independet store here isn't going to stock any Epic minis. They got a couple of copies of the rulebook and that's it.  :(  Of course, it's no problem for me to order from GWUK, but I was hoping to see _some_ activity around epic. I won't be seeing any. I don't know whether the GW store in Helsinki will be carrying Epic but I doubt it. And I don't much care; it's not going to save me much in postage over ordering direct from UK.

I guess I'll try to cut my losses and try to buy any epic I can from locals who used to play it.  :{

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:36 am 
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Quote (Mojarn Piett @ 19 2004 Feb.,08:08)
The local independet store here isn't going to stock any Epic minis. They got a couple of copies of the rulebook and that's it. ?:( ?Of course, it's no problem for me to order from GWUK, but I was hoping to see _some_ activity around epic. I won't be seeing any. I don't know whether the GW store in Helsinki will be carrying Epic but I doubt it. And I don't much care; it's not going to save me much in postage over ordering direct from UK.

I guess I'll try to cut my losses and try to buy any epic I can from locals who used to play it. ?:{

Same here - the two local stores who get GW stuff seem to be uninterested. MO it will have to be - 2nd hand epic is practically nonexistent here.

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 2:41 pm 
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While Epic obviously won't sell as well in places without in-store support, IMO it will still do well enough for GW\Fanatic to continue producing and selling it (even in the US).

I read some interesting points about GWs marketing strategy in the Appendix of their 2003 final results. You can find the full article here: http://investor.games-workshop.com/Resu ... endix1.htm

Here are some quotes from the article (underlining added by me on points I thought were interesting)

In short the model is that of a niche business and the story is that it appeals to a relatively small number of
people devoted to the Games Workshop Hobby.

Niche businesses are not widely understood. They do not, generally, follow accepted business norms. Much
of what is written about business is written about varieties of mass-market activities; most of the day to day experiences we have are with mass-market companies. A niche business is a tightly focussed activity that knows that what it does is not for everyone, but for a narrow group of individuals. It knows that quality is more important than price, and that respect for the customer is paramount. It knows that mass-market advertising is expensive and for niche businesses ineffective compared to the power of word of mouth. These are a few examples of the differences, there are many others.


This is what Games Workshop does; we create materials of the highest quality that appeal to a minority of
the population. The challenge for us is not to try to get everybody to buy our products but to reach out and
find the people who want them, anywhere in the world


Secondly, our future growth is dependent above all on maintaining product quality, continuing to introduce
more people to the Hobby, and keeping people in the Hobby longer. We do not need ?hit? lines, nor innovative packaging, nor cut-throat pricing.


Our customers are special and unusual people. They, like us, love their Hobby. Their main concern is with
quality and integrity. So our biggest challenge is to ensure we constantly provide a level of detail and service that is appropriate to and respectful of the devotion of our customers.

These are the keys to understanding Games Workshop: niche marketing and selling to a pre-selected, quality obsessed, narrow customer base.

As a Group we understand niche markets, providing excellent products and service to devoted gamers. That
is what we are good at, and that will continue to be our obsession.


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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:28 pm 
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What I cannot understand is the convultated system that GW has for internet sales.  Two different sets (Internet/Mail Order) with different sites and products, is inherently confusing and misleading.  I can understand having different sites for GWUK and GWUS, but why have a Mail order at all?  In my mind, it would be more efficent just to put it all under internet sales and forget about it.  And why, if it is going to be availible only by mail order anyway, the delay for Epic in the US?  It should have been launched simultaniously.  Confusion reigns.

my 3-1 cents,

iblisdrax

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 3:55 pm 
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Quote (CrimsonFury @ 19 2004 Feb.,13:41)
I read some interesting points about GWs marketing strategy in the Appendix of their 2003 final results. ...



of course the report is referring to Warhammer FB and 40K!

Specialist Games is a tiny niche segment of a niche market.

I suspect GW has successfully done their marketing analysis towards Epic, I also suspect SG will successfully achieve its sales targets of Epic, but this doesn't mean that Epic is a success from the point of view of the players which is why everyone is complaining!!!

GW has one POV on if Epic will be a success.

Epic gamers have a different POV on what makes a "success".

I suspect most people here expressing a point of view want Epic to achieve the same level of "success" as WHFB and WH40K.

It ain't going to happen now, today or tomorrow!

It did once I realise that, but once Fivestar (enter name of other poo pop group eg Steps) were in the charts, ain't going to happen again!

:cool:

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:23 pm 
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Quote (Jimbo @ 19 2004 Feb.,14:55)
of course the report is referring to Warhammer FB and 40K!

Specialist Games is a tiny niche segment of a niche market.



GW has one POV on if Epic will be a success.

Epic gamers have a different POV on what makes a "success".

I suspect most people here expressing a point of view want Epic to achieve the same level of "success" as WHFB and WH40K.

It ain't going to happen now, today or tomorrow!

Yes the report was mainly about Warhammer FB and 40K. Specialist Games is indeed a niche segment of a niche market.

Good point about the 2 different definitions on what a "success" is from GW\player POVs. I was thinking of the Epic meeting GW definition of success, and thus continuing to make the models and release new armies for many years to come. As opposed to many people claiming they won't succede and that E:A won't be around long enough to ever see Tau or Necron armies released.

I agree it won't reach WHFB\WH40K leaves with the current marketing strategy, and I don't think GW wants it to (although i'm sure Jervis and all the Epic players would love that, myself included).

What is possible is that if the current incarnation meets their sales expectations (which I think it will) the next edition (2008 onwards) will have much stronger support (eg small quanties in stores worldwide for the first few months), model ranges for all armies available at launch etc. Of course thats too far away for most people to care about, but theres not much we can do about that :\.


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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 5:53 pm 
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Quote (Jimbo @ 19 2004 Feb.,14:55)
It did once I realise that, but once Fivestar (enter name of other poo pop group eg Steps) were in the charts, ain't going to happen again!

You mean STEPS ain't big anymore? My world is all ascew  :{ .

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:11 pm 
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I have realised that the forum has changed the word cr?p in my posting to poo! Radio 4 uses cr?p all the time during the day, it is not a rude word!  

:D

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 6:25 pm 
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lol, poo pop. I think if you want to write c r a p you need to put spaces in, or we could just have the filter changed?

Cheers

Chris

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 10:15 pm 
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Hi!

Well Jimbo has summed up my views. Epic once was "core", but dinosaurs also "once" rules the planet and they aren't around anymore.

Epic is and forever more "just" a second tier game. The focus should change from "darn, such and such epic stuff isn't available at my LGS", to "please let it sell enough to be supported minimally, but permanently".

Forget about epic's "success" and worry more about its SURVIVAL.

At this point low support is better than NO support.

Primarch

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Thu Feb 19, 2004 11:01 pm 
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Primarch:  I resent that e-mail.

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 12:09 am 
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Hi!

I got it an responded.

Quite long though....  :;):

Primarch

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 6:08 am 
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I'm with Primarch, again ... survival is success ... :blues:

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 Post subject: Apologia Primarchica
PostPosted: Fri Feb 20, 2004 7:22 am 
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Epic is and forever more "just" a second tier game. The focus should change from "darn, such and such epic stuff isn't available at my LGS", to "please let it sell enough to be supported minimally, but permanently".


If only. It's not just that SOME of the stuff is available. NONE of the epic stuff save one copy of the rules is there at the time (I bought the other one). Nor will there be any.  :angry:

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