One question about the clan formation:

I get one free commander. If I buy a veteran officer and a great council upgrade providing a supreme commander to the formation, then I have two CH in this formation? Nice for sheding BM..

Fair enough.


ok, nice


The first part I can follow, the second I an not sure what you mean.
Codex "tactical" unit consists of 6 stands it costs 275, buy the commander if you like and end up with 325 points.
Iron hands Clan costs 250p with 4 stands and one commander, add two more tacticals and they cost 325 points.
So the clan is "forced" to pay the cost of the commander in every unit, it is not free or what am I missing?
Still think the commander is a good thing, feels fluffy and nice but it is one of many small things that makes it hard to get enough activations so I just randomly complain


It's not that harsh, I want a little bit of both
This list is fun and under development, I just struggle with activations (repeat) and suck at deploying through drop pods so I'm trying to find a way of bringing in the dreadnoughts...and in the same time use the new and shiny Titans
Spending 200 points on a spaceship is not always fun and in my head part of the Iron Hands fluff is a ground pounding army with lots of vehicles not just drop pods... But I can adapt but I don't always want that

Na, my point was that the (in my head) usual build there is a Thunderhawk with devastators and assault marines. Try that with Heavy Infantry and assault marines and the Thunderhawk won't liftoff.
The Heavy Infantry seems good as they are for now.


Then I must learn to Drop Assault

No the name is fine but normal terminators do not have flamers...
Not sure they need a discount if they are cheaper in a clan.

Won't free be too good? It would certainly make me happy anyhow and perhaps solve a lot of my rambling about expensive clans bla bla bla...

Wasn't I clear
Well right now you need to buy a venerable or some veterans before you can buy the supreme commander. I usually want a Supreme commander but then I usually ends up with a unit that costs the same as a big Titan... never mind, my suggestion is not a good one fluffwise so ignore it

To summarize: If the Land Raiders would be at some discount and I get better at planetfalling everything will be good. Need to think of some smart way of using the dreads outside the pods also. Thunderhawk (or Landingcraft) was just my first idea.

Keep up with the good work!

That is how I'm playing it.
The Clan and the Phalanx is hard to break this way!

Officially putting another thread to collate all the Bat Reps we get posted in the forum by version.

viewtopic.php?f=73&t=26098

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There is some rumors on the internet...

Continuing my “monolog” on Iron Hands development…sorry for not having a life outside Epic

Some reflections after 10 games or so:
I have only tested the “new” Warhound of all the titans but it is fun and competitive.

The army is slower than normal marines but an 8 man clan and the Phalanx is a lot tougher. Compared to other tough units I meet the marines lack range but it is better in close combat. Overall the army seems balanced (with a minimum of 12 dreadnoughts )

Flesh is Weak: Never had any real use for it. Perhaps I am playing it wrong, anyone else having some experience with it? Next time I will try and announce it on every turn no matter what and we’ll see if it is useful.

Discount Iron Father in the clan formation is welcomed. Right now my last 4 games I have only taken the 1 obligatory clan with 8 tacticals just because it is a very expensive unit (a good unit but expensive) and I think the Heavy infantry is a much more cost effective choice.

Land Raiders: I would really like to have some veterans with weels (or larva-feet) so a points drop on the raiders would also be nice but we need to limit it to veterans in that case. Right now I can field tacticals in LR. Perhaps we need to rethink the Assault Transport thing. (or not )

Scouts: Perhaps a crazy idea but after reading some more background on the IH not having a scout company and the early talk about recons. What about moving the scouts to upgrades? (Add 1-2 scout units to the clan, phalanx and heavy infantry perhaps…)

And some questions:
Is the process of moving this list to developed status the same as moving a developed into approved? (18 games...) My friends always nags about me playing an experimental list but compared to a lot of other lists this is not (that) overpowered

What list do we use for testing? On the first page there is two lists and a link to a third. I play with the 0.5 proposed list and if you compare the 0.5 and the 0.4.x it is a very different list.

Small typos in the list:
The “Siege” dreadnought in the imperial fist list has FF 3+…
Razorbacks can still carry Recon Tacticals

Oh and if you have some good advice on what a 3000p army would look like please post it here!

/Uven

Sorry mate, I've not touched the IH for a while now as I'm trying to get a couple of new players up to speed and working on my Salamanders.

However I'm still reading your posts and batreps. I think the list is coming along, but I agree with a number of your points/concerns.

"The flesh is week" still seems difficult to work, I'm more inclined nowadays towards the invulnerable save representing bionics over this.

Moving the scouts to an upgrade would be ok I suppose, working in similar way to how ratling snipers work for IG infantry companies?

I haven't had a chance to "build" an new IH list from the latest version but I would be looking to keep most infantry mobile whilst some heavy hitting dreadnought formations garrison or drop in to the thick of things. I think we need to expect lower activations than normal SM but the extra resilience from armour and fearless or an invulnerable save should balance this to some degree.

As for what to do with the restricted formations, I'm at a bit of a loss as I'm inclined to spend on some air but then that means loosing out on titan support... Maybe in Dec/Jan I'll get time to play this list. I'd love a mobile fortress for the fun of it but unfortunately have no model or proxie to use at the moment.

In the mean time please continue with your battle reports, I enjoy them.

Uven thanks for carrying the torch in this one. So yes, the tradeoff on the list intentionally is that air assault can be done but if taken, you're coming in without titans, which is pretty fitting. I agree that FiW is seeming sub par so lets try out the next couple of games as involving bionic enhancements instead via IS. Was it Black Legion above that suggested thus takes place in Assaults only? That's what I'd lean towards to help push the list into its strength: FF monster formations. If it is a passive ability always on then it's probably going to need a cost associated with it which would further limit formation counts.

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Updated .5 IH List in the OP. Uses the Bionics rule as suggested by Uven and Black Legion.

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Nice!

I expect to be doing an Iron Hands army as my next project (after the Angels of Redemption); I like the list as it stands, so I'll be using that as a guide.

I've found a collection of mid-era minis to use, and would like some critique of the list before I start assembling and painting. I'm primarily after an iconic Iron Hands vibe, but it should of course be playable and reasonably competitive.

Iron Hands Clan, Tacticals, Rhinos [300]
Iron Hands Clan, Tacticals, Tacticals, Rhinos [375]
Dreadnought Phalanx, Venerable Dreadnought, Hunter [375] Garrison, Forward AA
Dreadnought Phalanx [200] Garrison
Vindicators [225]
Bikes [200]
Whirlwinds, Hunter [375] Backfield AA
Reaver Titan, 3x ML [675]
Warhound, TLD, IG [275]

I'm out of Terminators, so no veteran officers. Should I get my hands on some, I'll add a Great Council Retinue.

I don't have all that many heavy weapons either, so I'm trying to refrain from using Devastators.

Are there any major weaknesses I need to address? Any obvious fluff violations?

Looks like a fun list:

Against eldar and orks I'd probably drop a tact upgrade and add a hunter to the 2nd clan as I tend to see lots of airpower with those armies (orks fighters being a PITA and laying as many BM on them is the best way to keep them off the board)
Another option (though you'd go over by 25 points) is to team up predators and bikes. I find the combo works well.

The combo of the triple AML and the WW could put some hurt out, especially on a retain.

Things I would test out with that list would be if the lack of inspiring units is going to put you in a bind of not, since getting into FF range under cover of the Reaver is going to be how you win. I've considered adding Inspiring to vet officers simply for the fact that's why they are around, to inspire. This build will help test that.

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Points well taken; I'm a great believer in airpower too, so I really ought to be prepared for opponents that share that philosophy.

I forgot to write the free commanders in the previous list, I intended them to be Iron Fathers (Big fan of Inspiring!)

Here's another variant:

Iron Hands Clan, Iron Father, Tacticals, Tacticals, 1x Land Raider, Rhinos [450]
Iron Hands Clan, Iron Father, Tacticals, Tacticals, Rhinos [375]
Dreadnought Phalanx, Venerable Dreadnought, Hunter [375]
Dreadnought Phalanx, Hunter [275]
Vindicators [225]
Bikes, Iron Father [250]
Whirlwinds, Hunter [375]
Reaver Titan, 3x ML [675]

One less activation, but I get to use a Land Raider (iconic!) and get better AA coverage. Is it still viable? I'm putting the Hunters with the garrisoned Dreads: they are already midfield, and I'd rather the enemy try to shoot Dreads to get at the AA than having them shoot rhinos, thus removing Clan mobility.

Usually when I form a Marine army, I start with a Battle Company (2x Tac, Dev, Ass't, ie 100 Marines) and add to that. Is there a corresponding "operational" unit for Iron Hands? Surely there's more to an Clan than the eponymous formation?

Looks like a fun and fluffwise list. Good to see the Hands getting some more love

I think you will be lacking AT firepower. (The dreadnoughts could fill this role but I usually take a mix of weapons and then you only get a couple of shots from the Phalanx) Consider changing the Vindicators for Predators or even better get a Heavy infantry? (if you can get your hands on 4 devastators)

No MW weapons? (not counting CC) Two of my regular opponents fields ATML and IG (whit lots of Leman Russ) lists and without AT or MW it will be hard

The clan with 2 tactical "upgrades" is really good, with rhinos they can take 24 BM before they break (in theory at least)

I see you go artillery heavy, how will you protect it? The reaver will probably cope but both the hound and the whirlwinds will be targets when the Raiders come...
I have thought of trying a similar list but never managed to get hold of the right stuff so I'm curious on haw to build this type of army

Garrisoning the Dreads is a good idea, just watch out so they don't get overrun. Against most opponents they will be vastly outnumbered

Good luck with the Iron Hands and focus on what you think will be fun, not what I suggest

With 2 clans and one venerable he has 3 inspiring units already isn't that enough? (I usually have 3 in my lists I think...) Right now you have the option of having 2 inspiring units in both the clan and the phalanx wouldn't 3 be a little too much?

/Uven

EDIT: whoa, I'm too slow

The second list is a little more Iron Hands but if you drop the Warhound why not bring the Storm Talons, to me they are great AA

I was thinking the bikes for some CC crunch myself (second list has that).
The Storm Talons seem to be a good AA vehicle (still experimental on that side of things though)
Working those two clans in support of each other, especially if you can get them into supporting fire of each other can put out some serious hurt. Watch out for intermingling.

Another interesting idea would be to go heavy on the attack bikes and use them to double around and lay BM on the target formation, retain, and blast the hell out of the formation with a clan, claiming crossfire. The bikes are fragile but that could be an interesting strategy.

And now I've noticed that somehow, somewhere, I've left of the Attack Bike Upgrade entry since... well since forever.

Consider the Codex Upgrade for Attack Bike to be available to the list as well.

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