I had a Titan lander in the Stenberg list; It could planetfall, but only from an Ark Mechanicus (so turn 3 or later) and couldn't take off once landed; It was DC10/VS6, so probably not killable by AA on descent (except, perhaps, multiple Defence Lasers). A bit like a "drop castle"; I thought it fitted the description in Titanicus.

I also had a smaller Orbiter that could ferry AVs from a Cruiser to surface; it's not really a military craft though (DC4/Armour 5+), but something an Explorator expedition would use on newly-discovered worlds.

The Devourer dropship looks like something midway between these. I'd say DC6, Armour 5+/RA, with a carry capacity of at least 10 AVs plus 20 INF/LVs... Its critical should probably be "+1D6 damage", to give it a chance of surviving crits. It doesn't look like it takes off on a hurry, either, so I'd say WE, Immobile (not aircraft or support craft), and Planetfall (requiring a spacecraft).

I can go with 10 AV plus 10 INF/LV. That fits the sizes of the units it would carry and lets us get rid of the troops can be transported in vehicles.

I also like the Crit idea.

I'd still like to keep the VS, so how about we trade a point of DC for VS and make it DC5 and 2x VS.

I'm very against it becoming an immobile box after landing. That would kill much of the utility and combined with planetfall make for an expensive chunk of useless hardware on the ground after landing. I think it needs to remain bomber.

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-Vaaish

How about giving it a useful shooting attack (eg, 2x Defence Laser, those turrets look the part) and make it Fearless? Then it's highly useful even after landing.

It just looks too big to do anything except land over the timeframe of an Epic game.

I agree. This makes the list also have a far more unique play style than we see elsewhere. A drop fortification actually seems rather crazy ad mech to me. Lets.try it out and see what happens.

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It says it has heavy LasCannons, so I think defense lasers would be a bit much and I really don't like the pillbox lander. The (minuscule) fluff for it doesn't really support adding the weapons it needs to be a pillbox.

I really don't like adding a static fortification in an armored tank list. it's completely at odds with the list and It seems like something Ordo Reductor would do. Perhaps we can stat out the old OOP dropship instead if you don't like this one as a mobile unit.

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-Vaaish

Well, if you price it at (say) 550 points and put it in the allies section together with titans and other aircraft, then it becomes a deployment option - a list would have either Titans (ground-slogging attack) or a heavy dropship (AdMech-style airmobile insertion). The latter option would require an aggressive plan to get the rest of the army and the armoured drop to work together; I think it could be fun (and different) to play.

I still just don't see putting two defense lasers on the critter. It's not as easy to suppress as a necron pylon an basically gives you the capability to lock down any objective you like and put up a no fly zone.

How would you like to have one of these plonk down in the middle of the table between two objectives loaded up with 2x valdor detachments and a sagitarii allied unit? My gut is telling me it might be fund for Admech but your opponent would see only cheese.

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-Vaaish

Scale the guns down to battlecannons, then. It's still a useful and colourful option (though not worth 550 points, then).

I concur that this is fun, interesting, and most importantly plays really differently from existing lists. Vaaish you make great points about things being overpowered with Defense Lasers. We drop costs, lower DC, and reduce weapons to balance and try her out. A Self Planetfalling Immobile WE is awesome sounding. Right now the theme of the list is too close to "RARE TANKS, in multiples of 5" for my liking. I think we need something a bit more.

Now that being said, you have a damn fine point about this perhaps being better suited for Ordo Reductor.

that's my 2cents. otherwise I'm enjoying this.

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Definitely not battlecannons. We KNOW what it's supposed to have and we should follow this.


One of the biggest issues I have with this whole thing is that there's no risk involved with locking down whatever objective you want at will. It's going to be tied to a slow and steady battleship to even be used and has planetfall to get on the ground. That means this sucker doesn't show up till turn three at which point there is very little an opponent can do to counter it. Doesn't that seem rather problematic to you?

EDIT:
For sake of comparison... here's a 3k list:

4x Valdor Maniple
2x Crusader Maniple
2x Dropship
Ark Mechanicus
Legate

All of this arrives turn three after the Ark softens the drop zone with each dropship holding 1x crusader maniple and 2x valdor maniples. yes you are giving control of the board to your opponent for two turns, but you can basically drop off your force wherever he's not and have him scramble to recover.

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-Vaaish

No more problematic than a Marine drop list...

I suggested a 550 price point explicitly to avoid the double dropship in 3K list; two dropships would exceed th normal 1/3 restriction on allies and aircraft. I would definitely force the player to split a drop army between ground forces and the drop element, thus necessitating the use of actual tactics to avoid being picked off piecemeal.

On the other hand, I don't think I mentioned the Ark in connection with this hypothetical medium dropship; It could drop on turn 1 from a cruiser; I think it is an interesting strategic choice to drop in turn 1, 2 or 3.

Really? You have no qualms about plonking down 10x RA4+ Av with MW3+ Disrupt shots and lascannons? That's a fair bit different than what I see a marine drop list putting out. Besides, without the defense lasers, you can't justify a price tag of more than 500 which puts it back into the 2 landers territory unless we put arbitrary 0-1 restrictions on it.

I just don't see this as a good option. An armored list should be about mobility, not the the lack of it. Turning the lander in to giant lawn dart doesn't fit that profile. I really feel this needs to go back to a thinner skinned bomber class transport. DC doesn't indicate size, just the amount of damage a unit can take. Sure it's big, but it's not as heavily armored as the Marine Lander so lets represent that with the 3DC +2 VS and a crit that destroys the lander.

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-Vaaish

It might be worth considering the theme of the list. This seems to be turning into an AMTL beachhead/dropzone list with a very aggressive style.

Is that the way *this* list wants to go, or is it meant to be themed around columns of exotic tanks churning up the martian soil, with some limited lifting-craft for logistics?

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While I'm not convinced of the wisdom of a Skitarii landing craft, I hope it's obvious to most that 8DC and 6 Void Shields is vastly over the top. your proposed 3DC 2VS 5+RA looks a lot more workable.

I do worry these AdMech lists are just becoming better in every way to previous non-AdMech lists.

Actually, does the landing craft have to carry 10 tanks? I get the feeling that one that can only carry one maniple would be less problematic.