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Iyanden v4.1

 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Thu Aug 29, 2013 12:45 am 
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Comments noted. I'm not going to change the cost in this version, but once the init change gets some action we can discuss it.

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sat Aug 31, 2013 9:59 pm 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Wraithknight WE 35cm AR5+/CC5+/FF5+, DC2, Reinforced Armor, Holofields, Walker, Jump Jets, Fearless. Critical Hit: Destroyed.
2x Heavy D-Cannon 30cm MW3+
2x Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+

Add as option to Spirit Warrior Warhost and Guardian Warhost for +150 points. Unlike other upgrades this may be taken alongside Wave Serpents.

Add the following Support Formation: Tearhunter Spirit Troupe - 425pt. Three Wraithknights.

I decided that the only way that the Wraithknights would be viable options as upgrades would be to allow them to join and match pace with mech. formations. To stat them at lower speeds and/or not allow them alongside Wave Serpents would hamstring the parent formation by eliminating all three effective deployment methods - mechanized, air drop, and portal.

Pricing - It may need adjusting. For now I think it's at least close.

Name - In the new Codex Wraithknights are designed to travel to the Crone Worlds and harvest raw soulstones, the Tears of Isha. As such they may eventually find their way into the Iybraesil list, but one step at a time.


GW alrweady has a name for this formation: Wraithknight Dreamwalker Squad

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:03 am 
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Spectrar Ghost wrote:
Wraithknight WE 35cm AR5+/CC5+/FF5+, DC2, Reinforced Armor, Holofields, Walker, Jump Jets, Fearless. Critical Hit: Destroyed.
2x Heavy D-Cannon 30cm MW3+
2x Scatter Laser 30cm AP5+/AT5+

Add as option to Spirit Warrior Warhost and Guardian Warhost for +150 points. Unlike other upgrades this may be taken alongside Wave Serpents.

Add the following Support Formation: Tearhunter Spirit Troupe - 425pt. Three Wraithknights.

I decided that the only way that the Wraithknights would be viable options as upgrades would be to allow them to join and match pace with mech. formations. To stat them at lower speeds and/or not allow them alongside Wave Serpents would hamstring the parent formation by eliminating all three effective deployment methods - mechanized, air drop, and portal.

Pricing - It may need adjusting. For now I think it's at least close.

Name - In the new Codex Wraithknights are designed to travel to the Crone Worlds and harvest raw soulstones, the Tears of Isha. As such they may eventually find their way into the Iybraesil list, but one step at a time.

I don't want to sound to pessimistic but why do we need the upgrade and who will take it? The Tearhunter/Dreamwalker unit I can understand but the upgrade with long(er) weapon range and low FF/CC looks odd to me in both guardian and spiritwarrior hosts...


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:05 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
I don't want to sound to pessimistic but why do we need the upgrade and who will take it? The Tearhunter/Dreamwalker unit I can understand but the upgrade with long(er) weapon range and low FF/CC looks odd to me in both guardian and spiritwarrior hosts...


I could see a use for a fast WE in a mobile firefighting host, to barge aside hard enemy units to let friendly FF target softer units hiding behind them


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 7:55 pm 
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It actually matches ranges with everything in a Guardian Warhost, though it outranges Wraithguard.

That said, I do expect the upgrades to appear less often than the Dreamwalker Troupe (thanks BL).

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 8:51 pm 
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Oups, my memory tricked me. I thought the support weapons only had 15 cm range... ::)

Still, you want to take these when you take the Waveserpents so I guess i have to learn how to use them when the time comes. It will make the wraithguard host even harder to kill :)

A little of topic:
SpeakerToMachines wrote:
I could see a use for a fast WE in a mobile firefighting host, to barge aside hard enemy units to let friendly FF target softer units hiding behind them

Hmmm, sounds intresting. Not sure I follow you though, could you describe what you mean in more detail? We play with very little barging and none with mixed units so I have little experience with this but wants to learn ;)


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 9:46 pm 
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uvenlord wrote:
A little of topic:
SpeakerToMachines wrote:
I could see a use for a fast WE in a mobile firefighting host, to barge aside hard enemy units to let friendly FF target softer units hiding behind them

Hmmm, sounds intresting. Not sure I follow you though, could you describe what you mean in more detail? We play with very little barging and none with mixed units so I have little experience with this but wants to learn ;)


Something like this:
Attachment:
p1.png
p1.png [ 3.54 KiB | Viewed 4621 times ]

Blue units, including a WE, is engaging an orange formation of unarmoured infantry, screened by red armour. The yellow infantry units is a particularly valuable target (say, a commander) and is positioned a little behind the others to minimize the number of allocated hits.

Attachment:
p2.png
p2.png [ 8.55 KiB | Viewed 4621 times ]

The War engine contacts the nearest tank, then barges and engages two more tanks (both times the nearest)

Attachment:
p3.png
p3.png [ 10.49 KiB | Viewed 4621 times ]

The tanks are dragged along and stays in base contact with the War engine, and there is now room for the blue infantry to move closer to the infantry, ensuring that the high-value target is the fifth unit to be allocated hits instead of the ninth.

If the blue infantry is better at CC than the orange infantry, then they could also contact the infantry behind the now-removed screen. For an Eldar host that can take a Wraithknight upgrade, this really only applies to Wraithlords, though.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Mon Sep 02, 2013 4:44 pm 
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Thanks a lot for the superb explanation. :)
Hope my opponents doesn't read this...


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:33 am 
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Hehehe.....

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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 9:55 pm 
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I thought bardging was restricted to pushing units to get the WE through a gap,not "pulling" units around. I don't have the rules to hand right now but i don't know if my buddies would swallow this unless it was shown like that with a diagram in the rules! :) Is this standard practice?


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Sun Sep 08, 2013 10:05 pm 
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See 3.3.1; Any units barged by a WE are placed in B2B with the WE after it completes its barge move, as close to their starting point as possible. So yes, it pulls them with it. The diagram illustrates that the WE must still move towards the closest unit once it has entered a ZOC - it could not move towards the orange units, since the red units are closer.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 9:24 am 
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What about keeping the Init 2+ for Wraithguard hosts,
with Spritseers providing a +1 to initiative,
but remove Farsight from the Spiritseers.

Say they are too busy guiding the dead to look so far into the future.
The lack of commander (as compared to a farseer) has a similar argument.

I'd still leave the Wraithseer with Farsight, and the init +1,
due to better support from subordinates, higher skill.

With an Init 3+ and the loss of the Spiritseer the unit would be almost impossible to recover from broken. As a small, slow moving and expensive formation this seems very tough. Rallying would likely have enemy within 30 cm so would need a 6 to bring the formation back under control. This is pretty extreme on a 350 pt or 650 pt (with transport) formation.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Mon Oct 21, 2013 10:58 am 
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Andrew_NZ wrote:
What about keeping the Init 2+ for Wraithguard hosts,
with Spritseers providing a +1 to initiative,
but remove Farsight from the Spiritseers.

Say they are too busy guiding the dead to look so far into the future.
The lack of commander (as compared to a farseer) has a similar argument.

I'd still leave the Wraithseer with Farsight, and the init +1,
due to better support from subordinates, higher skill.

With an Init 3+ and the loss of the Spiritseer the unit would be almost impossible to recover from broken. As a small, slow moving and expensive formation this seems very tough. Rallying would likely have enemy within 30 cm so would need a 6 to bring the formation back under control. This is pretty extreme on a 350 pt or 650 pt (with transport) formation.
Good point!
Not sure I want to take away Wraithsight but it would have a smaller inmpact on this list than raising the initiative.
EpicUK has 2+ wraithguards with no mod from the Spiritseer... not as fluffy but better :)
I think we need to be very careful before we mess with core units like this, making the Wraithguards 3+ could kill the list.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Mon Dec 09, 2013 4:01 am 
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uvenlord wrote:
Andrew_NZ wrote:
What about keeping the Init 2+ for Wraithguard hosts,
with Spritseers providing a +1 to initiative,
but remove Farsight from the Spiritseers.

Say they are too busy guiding the dead to look so far into the future.
The lack of commander (as compared to a farseer) has a similar argument.

I'd still leave the Wraithseer with Farsight, and the init +1,
due to better support from subordinates, higher skill.

With an Init 3+ and the loss of the Spiritseer the unit would be almost impossible to recover from broken. As a small, slow moving and expensive formation this seems very tough. Rallying would likely have enemy within 30 cm so would need a 6 to bring the formation back under control. This is pretty extreme on a 350 pt or 650 pt (with transport) formation.
Good point!
Not sure I want to take away Wraithsight but it would have a smaller inmpact on this list than raising the initiative.
EpicUK has 2+ wraithguards with no mod from the Spiritseer... not as fluffy but better :)
I think we need to be very careful before we mess with core units like this, making the Wraithguards 3+ could kill the list.



I just recently played in a tournament in Aus with this Iyanden list. It works well the way it is really. Making the Wraithguards 3+ would mean I don't think I would play them again. Took out the tournament as well.

Three fun good games.


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 Post subject: Re: Iyanden v4.1
PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 7:33 pm 
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Blish2 wrote:
uvenlord wrote:

I just recently played in a tournament in Aus with this Iyanden list. It works well the way it is really. Making the Wraithguards 3+ would mean I don't think I would play them again. Took out the tournament as well.

Three fun good games.


I played with Iyanden at Winteroffensive 2013 (Austria), and my Writhguard was very-very nasty. Everyone hated them. They survived all 3 games of mine, altough broken and almost wiped out -they're a tough unit, but the main advantage is THEIR PSYCHOLOGICAL EFFECT on the enemy :D having Fearless RA units is a good thing!

I lost against IG because my low activation number -the list is balanced, Iyanden units are way too expensive! Try to bulid an army around Terminators ;) A unit is 500+ points, because you need some kind of transport, etc..


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