So this is definitely a real rookie question, but here we go anyway.

I am a Tau player who has only really played against my friend who plays Eldar.

He fields a Falcon heavy list with the only real infantry being aspect warriors which he last turn grabs objectives with, and a unit of guardians which he always just sits on his board edge objective and if im honest he probably doesnt even remember they are there for the most part.

Now i love my Fire Warriors. I try and use they at every opportunity, but i cant for the love of me get them to do anything! I always field them in devilfish, but they always get nuked before they get anywhere near some kind of assault range, let alone close enough to use their AP on his back of the board units.

Basically i am looking for some advice. Is there some secret to using them which i have not grasped yet. I just cannot seem to get close enough without being shot to hell with them, and mostly rely on railheads/broadsides and aircraft to fight my war whilst my FW just sit pretty on objectives.

Is this possibly because of his list selection? Is it possible because we play length ways over a 6x8 board? I love my FW, but one day i would like to find a use for them. Help .... please?



PS. We havent played in well over a year, but are looking to Christen a new 12x8 epic table we have made for our local club with a game. Which is why i would like to get some advice crammed in before we play hehe. FYI we normally play 3000 pts because thats all i can manage

Given that a 3k game is normally played on a 6x4' table either width-wise or corner to corner (depends on who won the roll-off), you're skewing the game in a pretty big way.

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The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion

have you seen the 'building epic armies' article?
http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_Cus ... Armies.pdf

I'm hesitant to advise since I don't know either the Tau or the Eldar list very well. Playing on the big board (I'm very jealous BTW) seems like it would shift game balance very firmly towards units with speed 30cm or higher.

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My shifting projects

You should really reduce the area you play on to 6' by 4' for regular games (3-5k) and deploy on the long sides (unless its chosen to play corners). A huge table could be great for very large games (>5k) or multi-player per side battles, but it's not ideal for regular games.

Could you post up a typical army list you use? And roughly what your opponent takes as far as you can remember? I'd standardly take a couple of Falcon formations in my Eldar army and they're usefull, but very fragile and I'm dubious an army heavily based around Falcons would be that competitive. An Eldar player should be assaulting a lot against a Tau player, trying to win a shooting war is is a bad idea for the Eldar and should go badly for them. There's a lot of things in the Tau list that would be good vs Falcons e.g. garrisoned Broadsides on overwatch.

It's not their ideal target but your Fire Warriors have AP5+ Disrupt Pulse Carbines, which they can use to put a blast marker on a vehicle target even if they can't damage it. You'd ideally make sure the target was marker lit to get the +1 to hit. How do you transport your Fire Warriors? Devilfish? Orca? Seeker Missiles from your tanks should hurt Falcons, if you get them markerlit (marker lights are really important to play well with the Tau).

Are you using version 6.5, the current Tau list?

Sadly the Forge World Tau models are now OOP and ludicrously expensive secondhand, but you might like to take a look at some of the new and upcoming Onslaught Minatures models, some of which could make great proxies.

Tau SUCK at engagements (apart from Kroot) by design, but Falcons do too. A formation of Fire Warriors in Devilfish would on average slightly win against a Falcon formation - getting 1.6 kills on average and scoring 2.6 due to outnumbering compared to 1.6 kills and score by the Falcons. You'd want to do the usual assault tactics of trying to make sure the target formation has more blast markers than your assaulting formation, ideally that your formation have none, getting another unit in position for supporting fire to help too, ect to increase the odds in your favour. It's not always going to be a good idea, but you should consider assault possibilities against formations that are bad at it.

Correction: if one player places the terrain then the other gets to decide to play across the width or corner to corner. If both mutually place the terrain or a third party does then it's the choice of the player with the higher strategy rating (one of the advantages it gives) to choose, only rolled off if the strategy ratings are equal.

Doh, my mistake on who decides whether to play across or corners.

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The Wargaming Trader
NetEA Death Guard Army Champion

I think recons are the key for tau, having them zipping around means you can get the seeker missiles into play which are great for shelling vehicles at arms length, after seeing how effective they are, I'd always be tempted to take a spaceship, those two pinpoint attacks are fantastic against eldar for blowing up void spinners, storm serpents and the other SHTs which can really put a crimp in the eldar player's plans!

I'll echo the other sentiments, lengthwise on an 8x6 is going to change the game pretty fundamentally!

would be good to see a list, I've always found FW to be excellent infantry and as a guard player I am quite jealous!

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Dont get me wrong, i win my fair share of games, we arent unevenly matched or anything. If anything my FW hold precious objectives so my HH's can rock about the board doing their thing.

I am more looking for advice on how to use infantry/mechanized infantry. Since i dont really have many uses for them other than objective holders (which they do marvelously btw). I feel it may be more down to the fact that my opponent fields essentially 0 infantry which he engages with, meaning he has more points for longer ranged forces. I dont know, maybe i just need to use them more aggressively...

My typical list is along the lines of

2x 6 FW w/Devils + SR
2(3?)x 6 Railgun HH + SR
Broadsides
2x Barracuda squadrons
Orca
Tigersharks AX-1-0

I am currently expanding into pathfinders and recons for other markerlight sources.
He normally fields something along the lines of

Guardian Warhost
Aspect Warrior Warhost
5/6? x 4 Falcons+ 1 Firestorm
Vampire

Thats sort of how it went. Bearing in mind its been a year since we played so those lists are probably some sort of horrible hybrid between the new list have build and what i used to field. But because of the amount of scenery we use, he is most of the time able to bring a couple of units of falcons to bear against my HH's just by using the sneaky double move-fire-move. Just generally making it difficult for me to move into any sort of firing position without being overextended. Or forcing me to be stationary in order to keep overwatch, allowing him to move into a position to move on my objectives. We are looking at the onslaught minis at the moment. But i am just finishing painting what i have first before i go about purchasing more.

And yes i do normally garrison or land broadsides in an orca and then put them in overwatch.

The problem with the recon units i have been concerned with, is that i doubt it would be able to get them close what with them damn pulse lasers kicking out so many shots at anything that tries to get that close.

Have you thought about leaving out your AX-1-0s? They're an expensive formation dedicated to kill WEs and he has none. I'd probably take less aircraft in general (none sometimes), your opponent is taking a fair bit more than average of deadly AA so I doubt your aircraft are doing well.

Most Tau armies tend to have about 12 activations at 3k, 10 is a little less than ideal. You should split you Hammerheads up more and have formations of 4 not 6. Also definitely add in Recon formations, most Tau lists include around 3 formations of Recons or Pathfinders. A Shas'o would be wise too for the re-roll.

Checkout the Tau army lists that the UK players use in tournaments for list build ideas. See here and select Tau from the drop-down menu (I can't link directly to the Tau list page).

Do your games have assaults at all normally or does your opponent try to win by shooting? Shooting in EpicA normally sets things up and does some damage, but the game is normally won or lost in assaults. It's not normally a Tau armies strong point but against the list you play it would make sense to assault his Falcons at times.

Landing Broadsides then putting them overwatch seems odd, wouldn't you land them in a position to attack that turn? Garrisoning them so they start the game on overwatch would seem a better tactic for the Broadsides.

Kroot could help I think, Falcons have some AP attacks, but are mostly AT, which would be wasted shooting them. You could garrison them towards the middle of the table in cover and try to assault his falcons. You could spread them out and block off areas as they're scouts so can be 20cm apart with a 10cm zone of control and/or you could keep them together more and assault the Falcons enmass. They're best in CC but on average you'd win an assault if you get them all to FF and again you'd want things prepped to stack them odds in your favour. Stealth Suits could be another very good option as they can scout, teleport and have markerlights.

Against this particular build, your firewarriors aren't an optimal choice as they have limited targets and are best used to grab and hold objectives or provide support fire, I would say that you should go recon and vehicle heavy against this particular build, using your range to keep him at arms length and hit him with guided missiles

another option would be to engage with the fire warriors, if you can prep the falcon formations with missiles/hammerheads (if you kill one, even better) you're starting off at +4 (blast markers and double outnumber) he's only likely to score a couple of hits, and you'll probably get a couple too so you stand a good chance of wiping the formation out

Also worth bearing in mind that his AA is considerably easier to suppress than normal eldar if he only has one firestorm per formation, just plinking it will suppress the firestorm allowing you to hit him with the planes

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Just some guy

My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

As for the broadsides being dropped in to overwatch. I find them invaluable in funneling falcons into a forward/back ranged battle, which obviously against my railguns isnt ideal for him. Essentially on such a large board negating his maneuverability as much as possible works to my advantage, especially since saving them till a time when they will be dropped without being overextended means waiting till near end game anyway, i always feel making use of them in this way is useful.

Yes i have considered dropping lots of stuff before, But he always insists on playing as large a game as possible. Essentially i use every model i have and he makes whatever force he wants. In my new list though, i do field my HH's in units of 4, the units of 6 was simply how i used to field them. In my new list i will be taking pathfinder upgrades (i didnt think a single pathfinder unit would be worth much), and i am working on making some recon units.

I also have a fair few ion cannon HH's, which i used to take instead of SR's. But now they dont have AA, what with the Railguns having a longer range, they have pretty much been permanently shelved. The amount of AA i field i do find useful because he will sometimes field phoenix bombers, and it is good to free up the barracudas to lay down blast markers with relative impunity and take out the odd falcon. That and if i didnt take AA in such a wide area i am subject to hit and runs from his aspect warrior formation. Which liquidate units in one assault.

I fear it may simply be a lack of diversity in the models which i have. But I am looking at the onslaught minis at the moment to add to my forces. Tis just a shame that having 2 kids means i cant really afford to buy anything very often(/ever).