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Eldar Exarchs

 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:39 am 
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novemberrain wrote:

The thing is, if all you ever do is improve the under-performing units, then the average power of the list as a whole slides up. It is classic power creep. What needs to happen is a reappraisal of both the under performing units and the over-performing units to try and come to some median "power-level".



AFAIK no such consideration was made for SMs. But you make a valid point. What units are overperforming in your opinion?

Created a new thread for this.

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Last edited by LordotMilk on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:40 am 
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as I said already, it's not the fault of the CC exarchs that they never get used, it's the way assaults are resolved, and CC will always be second tier to FF, it's just the way the rules work.... the eldar are largely fine, some units are generally better than others but that just adds character to the lists and prevents it becoming completely homogenised

edit: Autarchs are supreme commanders, so they are leaders and can initiate combined assaults, that's why they're more powerful than vanilla exarchs

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:43 am 
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kyussinchains wrote:
as I said already, it's not the fault of the CC exarchs that they never get used, it's the way assaults are resolved, and CC will always be second tier to FF, it's just the way the rules work.... the eldar are largely fine, some units are generally better than others but that just adds character to the lists and prevents it becoming completely homogenised

edit: Autarchs are supreme commanders, so they are leaders and can initiate combined assaults, that's why they're more powerful than vanilla exarchs



Yes, but what justifies them havng MW attacks at CC?

Concerning your argument that înternal balance is not important, I completely disagree. Internal balance is very important. Otherwise why bother with different units at all? Lets just play E40k and make 100% Land Raider armies.

I also disagree that there is nothing that can be done to change the difference between FF and CC. CC attacks just have to be more lkethal than FF ones to get at par.

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Last edited by LordotMilk on Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:44 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:44 am 
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The Banshee exarch is just annoying (and should be changed IMHO), but the rest isn't that important.


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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:46 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
AFAIK no such consideration was made for SMs. But you make a valid point. What units are overperforming in your opinion?


Well I do not set myself up as some kind of Eldar expert but how about Wguard, Warlock and VoidSpinner? They seem to make their way into most lists that have access to them.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:48 am 
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the lists ARE internally balanced.... the preponderance of data and experience from 3k, tournament scenario games means that certain builds and combinations are stronger than others at those points values

and anyway, it's largely about the skill of the player, I'm lucky (or unlucky depending on how you look at it) that my 3 regular opponents are some of the best players in the UK, I've seen them win countless games with banshees, war walkers, warlord titan lists and all kinds of other 'sub optimal' choices, I've also nearly beaten Steve54's tried and tested air-assault Biel-tan list (my own fault for pushing too hard for the win on turn 3 instead of being patient) thanks to a bit of luck and some accidentally smart moves......

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 10:58 am 
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if you want to bring CC to par with FF, it requires a serious nerf to FF and a serious boost to CC, as I said before, clipping assaults, support fire, and the ability to attack skimmers are all strengths unique to FF

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:09 am 
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Rug wrote:
I find the EUK Exarches are fine along with 95% of the rest of the list. Personally I've never really liked NetEA Eldar adjustments.
.


Which ones are you referring to? Have Exarchs been changed at all in the 2008 review? Apart from the Spiders, I don't remember anything.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:13 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
What makes Autarchs more powerfuk than exarchs?

Also note that with the current rules, it is only the the CC Autarch that is more powerful than regular exarchs.


You've just answered your own question in terms of combat prowess.

In all other respects, the Autarch is more powerful than the Exarch because of his strategic skills. In terms of combat ability, the Autarch is only slightly better, but in terms of guiding the army, he is far superior.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:16 am 
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Irisado wrote:
LordotMilk wrote:
What makes Autarchs more powerfuk than exarchs?

Also note that with the current rules, it is only the the CC Autarch that is more powerful than regular exarchs.


You've just answered your own question in terms of combat prowess.

In all other respects, the Autarch is more powerful than the Exarch because of his strategic skills. In terms of combat ability, the Autarch is only slightly better, but in terms of guiding the army, he is far superior.


Which is represented by Invuln. Save and SC. So why the extra MW attack on CC? Just give it to all aspects or to none at all. Removes Fiddlyness. Streamlined.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:18 am 
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LordotMilk wrote:
Which is represented by Invuln. Save and SC. So why the extra MW attack on CC? Just give it to all aspects or to none at all. Removes Fiddlyness. Streamlined.


Because the Autarch is equipped with a Power Weapon, and not all Exarchs are.

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:22 am 
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Irisado wrote:
LordotMilk wrote:
Which is represented by Invuln. Save and SC. So why the extra MW attack on CC? Just give it to all aspects or to none at all. Removes Fiddlyness. Streamlined.


Because the Autarch is equipped with a Power Weapon, and not all Exarchs are.


Why not? Which CC Exarch does not have a power weapon in the fluff exactly?

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 Post subject: Re: Eldar Exarchs
PostPosted: Tue Sep 18, 2012 11:26 am 
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remember..... epic = game of abstraction.... if you want "realism" (and I use the term loosely) go play 40k, then you can have all the debate you wish about how many extra attacks a striking scorpion armed with the claw of karandras gets ;)

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