Oh and Blacklegion: Re you wanting Corvus ordinati to be removed because they wouldn't be a dual tracked slow vehicle:

Ordinati are a general name applied to custom built or experimental vehicles, not a strict class name like "baneblade hulled super heavy tank". They can have wheels, or tracks, or burrow through the earth using drills. They can even hover at low levels like a land speeder. There is no set "pattern" construction rules that they must adhere to like titans or standard imperial vehicles.

A typical "Corvus Ordinatus" probably looks completely different to a typical gun-armed Ordinatus; All they may share is that they were built by a curious or devout tech priest and they carry void shield generators of some sort.

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Hmm ok you're right. I now remember that piece of fluff.
So basically an Ordinatus (Minoris and Majoris) is a weapon where someone just build some kind of propulsion around it.
Looks a bit contrary to the actual Ordinatus models who look very similar apart from the weapon. And the Minoris are described to look more or less identical only with different weapons.

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I think you can put the similarity of the classic models down to production constraints.

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Noo never!

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^this^

and that they were made before much of the current information on the Ordinatus machines was written.....

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My hobby/painting threads

Army Forge List Co-ordinator

Another test game:

http://sdahl.net/~sdahl/whepic/20120409/

In this one, I'm trying to make as hard a list as I can think of;

Skitarii Demi-century, Tech-Lord, Secutors, 2x Praetorians
Skitarii Demi-century, Chimedons
Skitarii Demi-century, Chimedons
Minorus cpy, 2x QC, 1x CLP
Castellan robots
Crusader robots
Crusader robots
Warlord Titan, CCW, Volcano cannon, 2x Plasma Destructor, Veteran Princeps
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts

I'm fighting my regular nemesis, with Steel Legion, also with a very tough lineup:

Mechanized Inf, SC
Mechanized Inf
Leman Russ Cpy
3x Shadowsword
3x Baneblade
Manticores
Basilisks
Basilisks
Deathstrikes
Thunderbolts
Thunderbolts

The plan is to go for T&H and BTS, possibly Blitz, while denying BTS (it's a Warlord!) and Blitz (I've parked my Minori on the Blitz).

It didn't exactly work out that way (curse the fickle dice gods), but it seemed like a reasonably level playing field to both of us.

Comments to units:

- The Castellans again did practically nothing, and failed to activate when needed. If they were a popcorn formation, this would be excusable, but for 250 points, no thanks.
- The Crusaders seemed strange to my opponent - they're not really (light, fast) scouts, and they're not really (durable) engagement units. I tend to agree, I'll still take them at 150 points, but that's because I need a scouting screen for artillery. They can't reliably do anything else.
- Skitarii worked well as usual, both mechanized and elite foot (too bad the secutor died to hackdown... It's a sad way to lose a 100pt unit)

Comment to list, overall:

- Power level seems OK. It is possible to make a competitive list, and it didn't seem overpowered against Steel Legion at least.

On a more philosophical note, it seems like a list in conflict with itself. The Skitarii and their upgrades strongly suggests that this is elite assault infantry - with 5+ armour they can be left out in the open, and against any FF-centric army they want to get in CC. With Praetorians and Secutors they really want to get up close and personal. However, the strategy rating, pricing and transport options generally conspire to ensure that this is really hard to pull off - typically, they don't win initiative, they can't saturate the opponent with engagement setups, and the transports are a bit too flimsy to risk staying inside. It felt, most of the time, that I was paying a premium (+50% over a mech guard formations) for better armour (which the guard can match by staying in cover) and more shots (1 HB per stand vs 1 AC per 2 stands). However, the guards AC have better range, can target AVs, there are more guards to start with, they have a fearless inspiring commissar, and their FF is equivalent. If I were to play them defensively (find some nice fortifications and stay in them, for instance), I'd be paying a premium again for advantages like Armour that I don't need, or good CC attacks that I can't use.

Has anyone else tried the new AdMech lists in practice? What is everyone else's experience?

There are changes to Robots coming in light of some discussions on crossover units with Moscovian. This should help with the robots activation and functionality.

I think that the same argument on the crusaders could be said of the Sentinels too seeing that much of their stat line comes from there. The coming changes to robots should make them a bit more reliable and I've considered a 5cm speed increase to better fit their fluff but they work fairly well right now in their role as a defensive unit with a CC deterrent so I've not pursued this yet.

I would disagree with your assessment of the skitarii upgrades though. Praetorians are meant as a defensive upgrade for the formation providing CC punch to discourage engagement along with some durability and extended range. Their lack of easy transport options should be a sign that they aren't exactly running around the table

Secutors, on the other hand, may be transported in chimedons to create a more offense capable unit with better CC and FF ability while providing a benefit to the formation with the leader ability to drop BM and some tough armor. I priced Secutors pretty high at the cost of a tech lord and I feel these guys still aren't quite there yet and will likely require a point drop or gain fearless in the next revision to help direct formations that take the upgrade as more offensive.

I've got to say though, seeing your reports you really need new dice. I don't typically have the difficulty you seem to have activating units which does contribute a different outlook on the list I think.

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-Vaaish

To put it in context, Vaaish and I have been in discussion about unit cross-overs, trying to avoid problems down the road where the same units end up with different stats in well established lists. Anyone who is interested in the boring details of our compromises regarding Rapiers and Robots can contact either Vaaish or myself and we'll bring you pages of mind dulling discussion.

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It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Mosc- thats great to see. I hate to see same units with different stats in different lists (as opposed to different points costs which can be a good thing). Thanks to you & Vaaish for planning ahead.

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In the most recent game the dices were ok.

I had the advantage in all four combat resolution rolls in the game. That is what decided the game. If the warlord had not gone critical I would still have had the best chance of winning.

In my opinion (as regular opponent) the list lacks a defined combat doctrine, i.e. how would the army perform in "real life" and how should it be classified regarding shooting/assault, elite/horde, mobile/slow, tough/fragile, CC/FF etc.

For example the marines are a tough elite assault oriented rapid strike force and the units in the marine list is defined to fit this role, ie. short range, mobile, elite, assault oriented.

If you define the combat doctrine, you will see what units will fit and which will not afterwards.

You probably has thought of all this, but it is not clear when reading the list.

/Jacob

I agree the list lacks a core doctrine/theme.
I think that's part of what happens when a list has too many options & play styles available.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter