And here is the link to the lists pages (for the lazy )

http://www.epic-uk.co.uk/ukepicachampionship/albyr.php

Thank you for the heads-up on the lists.


Oh, absolutely – please don't think that I'm implying anything negative about the tournament scene (I'm keen to attend one in 2012 – any recommendations for a newish player? ). I mention sample bias merely because it's a possibility that such a close-knit group's choices have a circular effect on what's normal.

From a quick squizz at the lists, those nearest the bottom of the page Clicky Link, which are the oldest lists (right?) are really diverse; while those nearer the top (i.e. more recent) get progressively more similar to one another.

It was mentioned in an earlier thread that a player with an unusual 'mud marines' list (i.e. the sort of list that's regarded as sub-optimal) had done well and surprised the rest of the field.

How does that relate back to the thread? Well; my point is that tournament gaming may well include the most experienced players; but it doesn't follow that appealing to tournament lists will hold the correct answers to whether Dobbsy's changes should be included or not.

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

Looking at some of the other common lists (Biel Tan Eldar and Ghazghkull's Orks), this narrowing effect doesn't seem to occur (i.e. the most recent lists are as diverse as the oldest); which indicates to me that there's something up with the internal balance of Marines – or that everyone at the events happens to like similar lists, of course!

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

I'd recommend any of the 1 day events to start with, that's how I started coming to EUK tournaments, later "graduating" to attending a few of the 2 day events each year.

Also, since you're down in Kent, although it's not an EpicUK tournament, you might be interested in the Bristol tournament in January, which has a 1 day "dip your toe" tournament on day 1 and a mega battle on day 2 if you want to stick around for it.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I think 3+FF is out of character and gives the tank a substantial pseudo-AT ability through assaults. I'm not happy about them being a suboptimal choice. I just think that in this list it is nigh-unavoidable.

Edit: IIRC, there were substantially greater numbers of Destructors taken in the Scions of Iron playtests and batreps, at the same price as the Annihilators. I would hypothesize that because that list overall has plenty of AT, the Destructor actually has more of a role to play.

Apologies if I put words in your mouth there.
If Predators remained at FF4+ and costings are an ineffective way to make them appealing, might we try finding them a new niche? Has a larger formation size (to make them more resilient to encourage them to be used as objective holders) – or similar new approach been considered?

I must confess that I'd never spotted the engagement AT ability. Hmm.

+Edit+ Thanks C&E – I'll have a look into that

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Industrious, red-robe wearing member of the PCRC

As they're carrying 3 heavy weapons***, I reckon that FF3+ is just about dead on as to what their FF value should be.

Compare with a Devestator unit, which has 2 heavy weapons and 3 bolt guns.


***All of which are AP biased heavy weapons, which generally confer a better FF rating than lots of AT type weapons. For example, the IG Hellhound which only has AP weaponry, and is still FF3+. Or the Ork Skorcha, similar deal. Or the SM Vindicator, with just one AP-biased gun but still FF4+.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

As to lists yes they are sorted newest first. I should also say I can only guarantee to have all lists from 2010 onwards (Bar Botch this year that seem to have gone astray!).

2008 - 2010 are what people had lying around, or I could find in various forums.

As to what to go to, I'd say a one dayer first.....jumping into Britcon is likely to be a real shock to the system lol.

One factor why the SM lists might get less diverse recently is thst when people have decided to use a ground-pound list or not use titans they've chosen the DA or BT lists where they get something in compensation - 0-2 hunter upgrade for DA, crusaders etc for BT

For a first tournament I'd definitely recommend Full Scale Assault - 4th Feb in Mansfield. We've always kept this cheap (less than £10) to attract new players and this year we're talking about a discount for first-time attendees. Also on the next day we tend to have an informal get together and play some bigger games

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

This sounds interesting. I've looked in Tournament/Conventions sub section and I can't see any threads on this. Do you have any further details?

How much of a discount is it for new members? I am out of work at the moment so funds are tight, but I might be able to persude a friend to come along and thus split the petrol costs.

Please answer in a new thread if you want to avoid going OT from the SM changes.

Cheers

James

Hi James
Were working out the details currently, should have something up this weekend/early next week

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion

Thanks Steve

If you're concerned about costs it's probably worth mentioning that MoK's Bristol tournament is a fiver for entry IIRC.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

True but Mansfield is closer to me than Bristol!!

They don't have teleporters north of Milton Keynes yet? :-)

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter