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[Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:32 pm 
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Qft zombo. All of the old SG metal war engines were much too small for the scale.

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GlynG
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 5:43 pm 
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Dave wrote:
the FW one is huge but given its rarity (and the lack of a model for the Vituperator) I'd rather stat that as the Vitu.

I see that as the Harridan, like it's meant to be and think it should be statted as such. That model is flying and organic though so DC3 seems about right for it, DC6 would be ridiculous for it IMO. It's not necessarily that rare either, ask Oman.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:29 pm 
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Dc 6 would be silly. The 40k stats sit it as a heavily armoured dc3 or a lightly armoured dc4.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:30 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
Firstly, I don't see why they're independents. Background-wise they're mostly creatures that would be added to broods, and largely need synapse like anything else. The existence of the Trygon Prime is the clearest indication of this; the normal Trygon needs a synapse creature nearby, the Prime doesn't. That's why in leviathan I used a Synapse Symbiote to make Prime versions of some of the WE so they could go off independently, like the Trygon (ala the prime) and the Harridan, and still be able to have broods in their formations (Raveners and Gargoyles/Harpies respectively).

The only other alternative is the ugly solution 9.2.1 came up with where some of the basic broods inexplicably stop needing synapse and become independent to travel with the Trygon/Harridan, which can lead to having both independent and synapse-requiring ravs/gargs on the table at the same time, which is ugly and confusing, especially if they're the last ones left in the formation.

Allowing the Trygon/Harridan to become a synapse creature with a character addition solves this problem and allows those formations to be treated as normal synapse swarms. It's elegant and background supported.

They should all be standard synapse-requiring creatures, certainly not independents.


I'd like Dave's comments on this.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:33 pm 
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BlackLegion wrote:
Harridan has 8 Wounds now. +2 Wounds compared to the Hierodule.


I'd like a comment on this too, as it suggests DC4 for the Harridan.

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Dave
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:45 pm 
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The Synapse Symbiote will still be around but like I said the army list will take care of most instances of what you're getting at.

The Harridan is staying at DC3, even with 8 wounds in the new Apoc is still less than the 10 wound T9, Sv2+ Hierophant.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:52 pm 
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Hierophants are surely more than dc4? Did you downgrade those too?

Are you applying a blanket downgrade to basically everything?

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 3:54 pm 
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Then the harridan needs an armour bump instead. It's notably tougher than the hierodules.

Also, the Hierophant should probably be higher DC based on those stats.

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Ulrik
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 4:24 pm 
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Aren't all WEs getting reduced DC as they will now get some Regenerate rule?
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arkturas
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Tue Nov 01, 2011 8:51 pm 
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Ulrik wrote:
Aren't all WEs getting reduced DC as they will now get some Regenerate rule?


As far as I'm aware Regen won't apply to the little WE like the Harridan and DC3 Hierodules.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:21 am 
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In te Apocalypse book the Hierophant has Regeneration but the Hierodule hasn`t.

And i really would like to see Initiative value based on the unit type not on the swarm type. This way there aren't Initiative 3+ Trygons and Initiative 2+ Trygons. All Trygons would have Ini 2+ unless a Prime is there then it would be Initiative 1+ (all Initiative values are examples).
Only if you mix high and low Initiative crature sin a swarm you have to make a choice (unless you have a Synapse too which overrides all worser Initiative values) what to use for the army list:
- Only the best Initiative is used.
or
- The creatures type's Initiative with the highest amount in the swarm is used. For example: If there are more Raveners (Brood: Initiative 3+) than Trygons (counting starting DC, Independent: Initiative 2+) in the swarm then use the Raveners Initiative value.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:24 am 
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Too complicated.

Independents (only genestealers, lictors, meiotic spores): 2+
Synapse creature in the swarm: Init 1+
No Synapse creatures: Init 3+

Then give synapse to the Trygon Prime and things like the Harridan and Hierophant. Problem solved.

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Ulrik
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:26 am 
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BlackLegion wrote:
And i really would like to see Initiative value based on the unit type not on the swarm type. This way there aren't Initiative 3+ Trygons and Initiative 2+ Trygons. All Trygons would have Ini 2+ unless a Prime is there then it would be Initiative 1+ (all Initiative values are examples).


Initiative should be based on formation type, not unit type. It's a measure of how the units act together as a formation, and not solely something based on unit quality.

An example would be "green" IG troops with init 3+.

Zombo's rules look good.
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:41 am 
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zombocom wrote:
Too complicated.

Independents (only genestealers, lictors, meiotic spores): 2+
Synapse creature in the swarm: Init 1+
No Synapse creatures: Init 3+

Then give synapse to the Trygon Prime and things like the Harridan and Hierophant. Problem solved.


Easier:
Synapse creature in swarm: Initiative 1+
Non-brood creature in swarm but no Synapse: Initiative 2+
Only Brood creatures in swarm: Initiative 3+

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: [Xeno-Biostatistics] Little WEs - Ts, Ms, Ts and Hs
PostPosted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:47 am 
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Quote:
Easier:
Synapse creature in swarm: Initiative 1+
Non-brood creature in swarm but no Synapse: Initiative 2+
Only Brood creatures in swarm: Initiative 3+


Most easy:

Synapse creature in formation : Initiative 1+
No synapse creature in formation : Initiative 3+

'Nid formation conducting an Engage or Triple action: +2 to Initiative rating

Simples. :-)

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