This is a big one, no complaining though. You guys wanted to talk stats so now we're going to talk stats.
I didn't want to split these up because each of the pairs share a lot of stats. All of these guys will be able to be spawned back (with the exception of the new Zoanthrope as its Synapse, not Brood).
BiovoreFor the same reasons as Lictors, these guys are being classed as LVs as well. Again, not looking to debate this one.
For move, 15cm suites them. They're not overly fast or slow in either SM/TL or 40k.
Armor is another matter, they are significantly tougher in the current edition of 40k than they were in the older editions and SM/TL had them as a 4+. Given their current stats I'd say their around a 5+ in comparison to an Attack Bike. Given their older stats or even an average across all editions of 40k they'd be a 6+. Thoughts here? Remember that they will be benefiting from cover saves thanks to Mobility.
I don't see any reason why they should be anymore than a 6 in CC. They're CAF was crap in SM/TL and they have 1 attack in 40k at WS3 S4.
For their Spore Mines attack they probably shouldn't have an AT value if we're going by the 40k5e stats, an S4 barrage attack wouldn't be damaging anything but LVs and is worth an AP5+ tops. However, they did have Bio Acid mines in previous editions which I think warrant an AT6+ attack. Given what has been done with other Barrage 48” weapons I think 30cm Indirect Fire is warranted but what are people's feelings on Disrupt? There's nothing from SM/TL or any of the editions of 40k that point to it does kind of fit the fluff.
On FF. If we're going with a AP5+/AT6+ attack (Multilaser equivalent) then a FF5+ is probably right. However, a Biovore isn't as agile as a Sentinel and has a fixed weapon on its back so I think FF6+ could be abstracted as well. Thoughts?
PyrovoreI think the stats for these guys should be tied to that of a Biovore with two exceptions:
The Flamespurt (obviously
) which is effectively a Heavy Flamer (15cm AP4+ Ignore Cover)
And the CC could possibly be bumped to a 5+ thanks to the Acid Maw in 40k (no armor saves in CC). It still has only one attack though in 40k, same as the Biovore. Thoughts?
Also, feelings on giving its FF ignore cover as well due to the Flamespurt?
CarnifexThis is the Screamer Killer (CC variant) fex.
Speed was the only area where Zombo and I disagreed when we sent this to Jaldon. I'll let him explain his reasoning for 20cm but I'm fine with 15cm as they move the same as regular infantry in 40k and SM/TL.
For armor, we both agreed that 4+ RA was more inline with their stats in all editions of Epic and 40k. Also, with Tyrants being 4+ RA they should get it as well.
For CC they have twice as many attacks as a Dreadnought in 40k just with a WS3 instead of 4 and a S9 instead of 10. We're looking at at least a CC of 4+ with an EA+1 MW, but CC3+ (Wraithlord) wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities as well. Thoughts?
On FF, their Bio-plasma attack is pretty much an autocannon in 40k5e but at a range of 12”. Given that I think FF5+ is warranted.
Finally, they currently have Fearless. While it can be argued that they have it in 40k so do all the fan rules for the slug tanks (which don't have it in EA). What are peoples thoughts on Fearless here if we're not giving it to the slug tanks/bigger AV bugs.
Devourer CarnifexThis is what Zombo currently has as the “FF” fex. I think move, armor and special rules should be tied to the Screamer Killer but obviously CC and FF should change given its armament.
Zombo has this with two twin-linked devourers which effectively yields 12 attacks at range 18” with S6, re-rolling misses. 12 attacks at S6 is effectively four multilasers (4x AP5+/AT6+), twinning them would give you 4x AP4+/AT5+. However, I'd rather twin them again and go with two shots over four to cut down on the variance. Thoughts on 2x AP3+/AT4+?
Given the above stats, I think we're in FF3+ (what they currently have) when you compare them to a Leman Russ Demolisher or Exterminator. Thoughts here?
For CC, they don't have any Scything Claws in 40k so Zombo has them just at a flat CC4+ with no MW. Good enough or should it be CC5+?
Barbed CarnifexThe Leviathan "gun" 'fex which is armed with a Stanglethorn cannon and Heavy Venom Cannon.
The CC should be on par with the Devourer 'fex I think.
For the shots, a Heavy Venom Cannon is effectively a 36" Lascannon with a blast template in 40k. So AP4+/AT5+ at 30cm seems a good fit. On the Stranglethorn Cannon we're looking at a 36" S6 large blast/pinning weapon, so 30cm AP4+ Disrupt seems about right.
For FF, given where the other two 'fex lie I think FF4+ works.
ZoanthropeSame as the Biovore and Lictor here, these guys are going to be LVs. This is also the first instance where we're looking to split the stats with a new/old model stat line. I'm hoping this will boil down to merely Synapse and Jump Pack on the new and Brood on the old but we'll see what people think.
For the armor, their Warp Field pretty much makes them attack bikes with an invulnerable save in 40k5e. I think 4+ with an invulnerable save fits pretty well here.
CC and move-wise they're on par with Biovores so 6+ and 15cm, respectively, are good enough.
For FF, both Zombo and I agreed that a MW here (not an EA+1 MW) was warranted from their Warp Lance attack in 40k (18” S10 Lance) but he was in favor of a FF4+ while I a FF5+. I'm aiming to keep the FF low on all units but I want to here peoples thoughts here. The attack in 40k is pretty close to a Multi-melta and given that Land Speeders only have FF5+ I think the Zoanthrope should be FF5+ as well.
On the shooting attack from the Warp Blast (24” S5 AP3 Assault 1 Blast in 40k) Zombo had it has a 30cm AP4+ and I a 15cm AP5+. My reasoning being that 24” is FF (15cm) range and those stats in 40k are closer to a Heavy Bolter or Frag Missile (AP5+) then a Battle Cannon (AP4+). Thoughts?
VenomthropesI don't believe this guy has been stated up yet, if not let me know.
Given its appearance and stat line I think we should tie it to the new Zoanthrope (sans Synapse) for most of its stats with the following differences:
Armor 5+: while its save is worse than a biovore in 40k it does have its Spore Clouds giving it some benefits of cover so I think that can be abstracted out into a save of 5+ instead of a save of 6+. Alternatively we could give it armor 6+ and an invulnerable save for the same reasons we gave it to a Lictor. Thoughts?
No FF: It doesn't really have any range weaponry, so no FF.
CC to 5+: possibly giving it MW (no EA though) as its attacks work the same as witch blades in 40k. If no MW then maybe CC4+, thoughts?
