Ah, but I wasn't just playtesting, was I? Something else which skewed results a lot was the incredible amount of crucial activations zombo failed. So many in fact that we discussed being able to buy a nid SC without having to buy a dominatrix. Something which as a nid player myself I'd welcome.

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Yeah, there was actually very little permanently dead at the end of the game, but it wouldn't matter how long the game went on, since the lack of any engagement weaknesses on any of the knight types made it impossible for me to make a breakthrough.

(Actually I did have an opportunity to clipping engage two formations of errants and swing the game, but failed the activation. Definitely adding a Hive Tyrant supreme commander to the list!)

Ooh a swarmlord :-p

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

Extra note for Morgan for when he comes back: there ARE knights who are weak in assaults, but I didn't take any (Wardens, Castellans, Crusaders). Even with that, there should be more specialization among the DC1 knights which means playing around with:
- save (this is not a leman russ list so you can have 4+ RA and 5+ RA since there's different hulls)
- ff and cc values (think carefully about any 3+)
- attacks in assaults (even the paladin has 3 which seems excessive)
- moves (20 to 30 range)
- special abilities like infiltrator. If defilers, Tyranid WEs and so on can have it, why not some knights?

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Proposed amend to list:
- Make the Seneschal unit upgrade compulsory but free for all DC1 knight fms. Keep same costs but reduce overall effectiveness of knights (some suggestions from me above) to compensate. Having all DC1 knight fms with Leader for 'free' would probably make Indomitable unnecessary. Commander and Inspiring both seem very fluffy too.

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Had a 3k game against Dave's ground pounder Marines today. He didn't have any aircraft or Terminators. I won by about 450 points. Here's the list I used:

4 Paladins + Baron
4 Errants + Seneschal
4 Lancers + Seneschal
4 Paladins
1 Skitarii formation
1 Trebuchet formation
1 Castellans formation
1 Wardens formation armed with Ballistae
1 Warhound with Vulcan Mega-bolter, Turbo-laser Destructror and Veteran Princeps

Indomitable didn't have much of an affect this game. Some thoughts:
- Dave and I have been saying for two years that Errants and Lancers are too fast. I say (and Dave would probably agree) drop them to 25 and give them Infiltrator
- I'm still trying to figure out why Castellans and Crusaders were ever given void shields
- Errants seem too good in CC. Maybe drop one of the extra attacks
- I understand wanting to keep the list focused on Knights, but only 1 support formation per core formation makes it tight for choosing support

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

So change a 30cm charge to a 50cm charge? Even I am worried about that idea.

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Dwarf. I'm curious why you are taking the skitarii (put AP targets on the table; slow without transport option), the seneschals (I'd rather take more knights) and only 1 fm of trebuchets (only indirect in the army; cheap; burner formation; etc)? Just model availability?

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I can kinda see the use for the inspiring and leader from a seneschel; There's certainly a lot of Chaplains taken, though they add an extra macroweapon attack as well. I'm pretty sure a forth/fifth extra attack would be a little too much though.

Also, I think ATSKNF would be a fine for Knights; the fact the name relates to a specific different army should be a non-issue.

ATSKNF + 4+RA all over + all AT targets + no assault vulnerabilities except fm size = too good

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I thought the old talk was was 20cm with infiltrator.

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Dave

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Squats 2019-10-17

the main reason to drop below 30cm move is to remove the 10cm countercharge - with it, you can never clip an Errant or Lancer fm. How far below 30cm with/ or without infiltrator would be up to Morgan.

20cm + infiltrator would be fine though

OMG, I just fell out of my chair. Dave, not taking any aircraft? Was he sick, running a fever, temporarily blind/ insane/ etc? Not even one fm of thunderbolts? Not one? Really?

I was playing with the new marine changes, and the locals tend to cry/whine when I take my 3 Tbolts. Lack of a long range attack made things difficult, but no more so then Tim not failing a Knight save until the third turn. My dice weren't up to their usual standard either.

On Knight movement, I'm not sure why Errants were ever bumped to 30cm back in the old AMTL list. They never moved faster than Paladins. I agree with you though, 10cm counter-charge is just another boon that they don't really need.

15cm for the Crusaders/Castellans, 20cm for the Paladins/Errants, and 25cm for the Lancers/Baron would be more in line with the SM/TL stats. With them still being able to barge I tend to think that infiltrator wouldn't be strictly necessary either.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Well your messiah is back in the next 2 days

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