Hi all. Steve54 has graciously appointed me the Khorne Renegades list developer so here is version 1.1 (1.0 was submitted to the the Chaos NetEA lists/book/project/tome etc but I've just updated the list to take into account the changes to the Black Legion/LatD/World Eaters lists so 1.0 is now out of date). I believe it's part of the Chaos 3rd Wave lists that Steve54 has in mind.

The list is by-and-large an infantry-based list and is designed with the specific purpose to utilise the better part of 2x GW Chaos infantry boxed sets.

It represents how I see a Khorne raiding force out of the Eye of Terror might work in the current 40K ethos/setting.

It possibly has a couple of errors or things I've missed in the recent changes but please let me know if you spot them.

Hope you like it.

Khorne Renegades 1.1.1

A few points:

- Anything with 'World Eaters' in the title should have the same name and stats as in the World Eaters list. At present you have a mis-match in Berserkers and Terminators.

- Renegade bikes with +1 A. I played this extensively. It really is better to bring these back to normal Chaos bikers as I have done in the World Eaters. They are too cheap with EA+1 and 8 for 300 points

- Slaughterfiends transport ability. You have changed this from what is in the World Eater list. This should not diverge from that list

- Bloodpack - This is also different from the World Eater list. There should not be a difference

- World Eaters Planetary Assault - about 100 points under priced

Overall it looks to be that you have taken the World Eaters and added more and changed some things. The World Eaters is in a Developmental state with a history of many games to bring it to that stage. I do not believe you should be changing things for no reason. This list should really take on a Warband feel rather than a "World Eaters but not World Eaters" force. There are a lot of Marine elements that could make room for a different type of force more in line with societies that value combat over civilisation. This includes the desperate and mis-aligned.

I liked the idea of Terminators in with base units and maybe you should go along with that again to gain the 'warband' feel.

Large armies of mutants (without EA+1) who are sensed into battle without a care for themselves

Just some ideas...

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Here is some more:

Too Cheap
- One or Two Lords of Battle 400 points each
- One or Two Brass Scorpions 150 points each

Is it an old list that you are comparing stats and prices to or are all the changes purposeful?

I also notice the WE Terminators with 3 attacks. That was another old stat that I threw out with Steve54's blessing.

If you want collusion, just PM me. There is a fair bit of history and back talk through PMs with Steve54 that made the World Eater list what it is today.

Cheers..

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- Corrected
- Corrected
- Corrected
- Name changed to reflect the difference.
- No


So then a different list then?


As you keep saying... but this isn't a major issue with a fledgling list IMO.


Good thing I didn't then.


Even though you didn't think my World Eaters list was World Eaters enough? Having World Eaters present doesn't mean they are the focus. They are essentially "mercenaries" in this force. A small part of a larger list. They'll follow your list's stats design. That's enough. And the list will take the direction I feel I'd like it to take. WE should be warbands. Raiding Khorne forces don't need to be that. They can be more organised.


Then that would be a different type of force.


Thanks. They do - in the WE section. It's a carry over from my original WE idea.


Nope. That would essentially be a LatD list. Mine is a Khorne-worshipping Marine list with planetary allies in uprising/insurgence. If the mutants are deemed needing a change then so be it. You might notice their CC stat went down from 4+ to 2x5+ as well - why make something the same when you have scope to perhaps adjust it slightly. I don't like homogeneity that much.


- Corrected
- nope it's not a Greater Brass Scorpion.


A little of column A a little of column B and a couple oversights in between.


Corrected.

If this is in regards to being overpriced (as in they are not), then I think you are mistaken.

No doubt you will find this out after the many playtests you perform OR you could use the 30+ playtests that I have to show their value as a drop formation.

Honestly, (and I am being quite straight down the line here) with all the above, it still looks like a World Eater Force with more toys.

Happy to provide ideas for how it can be different (as I have so far), however I would hope that they are accepted with the intention in mind that they are given. I am not trying to be any more than helpful.

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Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats

Nice document, an epic community pdf that has actual margins, who is this madman!?

Could you give a summary of what this list is intended to offer compared to the world eaters list or the red corsairs list? I can see that the structure is different from both and there are some different options, but i can't see how the end effect will differ much. Looks like it would either be similar to a WE force but by a different name, or take some more 'regular chaos' options with renegades and annihilators, at which point it looks more like BL's Red Corsairs but with one god and plenty of cult marines chosen and a special rule or two.

(sorry if the above should be obvious, im still don't have that much experience with the intricacies of game side of epic … it's only been three years after all )

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I know you like your margins Truthfully it wasn't by design unfortunately


No worries Apoc.

Right now the list is basically an infantry-focused all Khorne force that sits squarely between the RC and the WEs. As I mentioned above, it's aimed at being a raiding force with planetary allies. So if you want an infantry-based list (especially if you can only get hold of the Chaos box as your army) that's more "across the board" than in-your-face close combat WEs or a list that's more Chaos-y than RC, then this is the aiming point of this list.

It's not a World Eaters force - you'll notice that they are not the main body and you can't just stack up on them willy nilly - they perform one job and that is planetary assault if you so choose, but only to a point. They're there simply because they are forces of Khorne and WEs warbands don't often come together as an entire force in its own right these days going by the fluff.

There are definite similarities with the Red Corsairs. The RC list can essentially take all Khorne of course, but it doesn't quite do it at the same level and adds in a lot of Codex Space Marine units into a recently "turned" force rather than a god-specific one.

Anyway, hope this fills you in a bit more.

Thanks for checking it out, mate.

Fair enough. As this is a new list though I'll see how it pans out. Plus the fact the World Eaters Retinue is diluted with Khorne Berzerkers now muddies the issue for me. My vies atm (not having playtested your list) the World Eaters are slightly less uber than Khorne Berzerkers - much to my annoyance - I mean, World Eaters now break and run away when they lose an assault right...?


Or I can start my list from scratch and see how it interacts with its pieces and I can just put out the list for others to try. I'm patient. It's out there for people's enjoyment for a start, not to be tournament ready as fast as humanly possible or I'll explode. I see no need to rush. It's not like there's much real hard testing of lists anyway. Even your list with its "30+ playtests" (did I hear trumpets? ) wasn't the same list through all those games.


Well, honestly? I think you're wrong. For starters it has all the troops you once told me were not and should not be in a World Eaters force. Secondly it has far less WE infantry options (2 types compared with 5...); thirdly, they aren't core formations and restricted in their use; fourth, there's actually shooty basic-infantry with half decent FF stats(something which when i included in my WE list caused you to almost lambast me, I might add); fifth there are far less Daemon Engines and assault engines built into the list; and finally, there are non-marine elements included.

If that looks like a World Eaters list to you then I'm not sure you can help out as nothing I do will ever make you happy.


Oh, of course not. Thanks for looking and pointing out the corrections needed though.

What's the big deal about lists being similar? No one cmplained about the minervan list being IG list with extra tanks.
I wanted to put a WE army together but it doesn't have much in the way of variety, this unit has cc3+, this one has 2xcc 4+, this one has a mw attack, etc. So this (at least so far) is more attractive.

Sure there are similarities to the world eaters, but it definitely seems to have enough variation to be a list in its own right. I'm just glad you two aren't fighting over the same ground any more.

It would be interesting to see some more khorne cult elements in there.

Slow Firing Plasma Cannons on infantry could end up being annoying to track.
The Plasma Cannons in the Minervan list are AP5+/AT5+ (with no Slow Firing) and are MUCH easier to play.

Good onya Dobbsy!

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Onyx - I thought the consensus was Plasma was always slow firing? Anyway, I'm happy to change it if that's preferred by the community. I know personally I'd prefer it.

Zombo - what sort of cult elements?

Hey Dobbsy,

Took a look at it mate and looks good. I concur with Zombo, you aimed for an infantry feel, if you want the cultists to get involved then give them some upgrades to To work with on the battlefield. Alone they seem to be a slow moving mass that will be hard to get into contact. Maybe adding daemon engines to them and daemons will give them an impact.

Are chaos Predators supposed to be FF 5+? I would of thought with All their weapons being AP that they would be a 4+.

I think you should give them Vindies, they are an assault based army, Vindies just scream assault.

Cheers
Aaron

Ferals in the stats part of the list, but no option for them in the list. Should they be in or not?

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It should be in there so it's likely a cut and paste error.