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What should the penalty for an uncontrolled swarm be?
Poll ended at Tue Feb 15, 2011 6:03 pm
-2 Initiative, with victory condition-related penalties 47%  47%  [ 14 ]
-3 Initiative 53%  53%  [ 16 ]
Total votes : 30

Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:43 pm 
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zombocom wrote:
No, I'm suggesting that, like with chaos, everyone will automatically factor the bonus in anyway.

Nobody plays chaos as 2+ with a bonus, everyone plays it as 1+ with a penalty.


Anyway, personally I wouldn't word it as either; in the Leviathan list my wording was:

Synaptic Swarms have an Initiative Rating of 1+ if there is at least one unit with the Synapse special rule still alive in the formation, otherwise they have an Initiative Rating of 4+.

Neither a bonus nor a penalty, just two different ratings dependant on circumstance.

I think it to close to call at the current numbers. I really don't see Nid uncontrolled masses being able to contest/control objectives.


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MikeT
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 9:54 pm 
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How about can contest, but can't control?

Uncontrolled swarms might not have enough gumption to actively control an objective, but they're sure gonna get inteh way of hostiles trying to do the same.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2011 10:12 pm 
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What about in other scenarios?

In general, special rules should try not to be specific to the tournament scenario.
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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:29 am 
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zombocom wrote:
What about in other scenarios?

In general, special rules should try not to be specific to the tournament scenario.

The exceptions don't need to my TS speicfic. Could word it that the uncontrolled Nids cannot achieve any scenario conditions at all or something to that effect.
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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:09 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
zombocom wrote:
What about in other scenarios?

In general, special rules should try not to be specific to the tournament scenario.

The exceptions don't need to my TS speicfic. Could word it that the uncontrolled Nids cannot achieve any scenario conditions at all or something to that effect.


You can't word it like that if you don't know the details of every scenario. You might end up making a scenario unwinnable.

Most nids' instinctive behavior when without synapse is to stay pretty much where they are. If they happen to do that on an objective, I see no reason why it shouldn't count as capturing it.


Last edited by zombocom on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:10 am 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
I think it to close to call at the current numbers. I really don't see Nid uncontrolled masses being able to contest/control objectives.

If the numbers are close, then the choice should come down to what is the simpler, more elegant option in-game, IMO.

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Angel_of_Caliban
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 8:48 am 
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zombocom wrote:
Most nids' instinctive behavior when without synapse is to stay pretty much where they are. If they happen to do that on an objective, I see no reason why it shouldn't count as capturing it.

How about that then? Synapse-less Formation can only preform Marshal or Hold Action.
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Athmospheric
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 10:15 am 
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stop it ! stop it now with the special rules ! you're doing it all again !

If a single chimera can hold an objective and an empty lander can contest one, I don' see why a synapseless brood couldn't. Gaunts don't need direct explicit orders to eat guardsmen.

I am in full agreement with Dave that we should do our best to refrain from rules affecting VCs.


Last edited by Athmospheric on Thu Feb 10, 2011 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Thu Feb 10, 2011 1:38 pm 
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Angel_of_Caliban wrote:
zombocom wrote:
Most nids' instinctive behavior when without synapse is to stay pretty much where they are. If they happen to do that on an objective, I see no reason why it shouldn't count as capturing it.

How about that then? Synapse-less Formation can only preform Marshal or Hold Action.


No need. An initiative penalty does this automatically; a formation with 4+ initiative is pretty much going to be holding most of the time anyway.
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nealhunt
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 10:44 pm 
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A pretty even split and no incumbent system to break the tie. I believe the AC is needed to make the call.

One good thing, though, is that the synapse range/destruction issue didn't get rehashed again. I think it's pretty clear majority opinion is strongly against that.
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Ginger
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 12:53 am 
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Umm, given that 'uncontrolled' units / swarms go to ground in the end-phase, I was assuming that they could not actually contest objectives by definition - have I missed something?
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zombocom
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 1:19 pm 
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Ginger: This whole poll is about removing "going to ground" and replacing it with an initiative penalty.
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Man of kent
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:27 pm 
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As mentioned in over thread I will be playtesting this in two up and coming games this and next week, one at 3-4 and the other at 5k. Brief batreps about all findings will be posted.

THe options that I am going for will be the -3 initiative for uncontrolled swarms as I previously misunderstood this poll and have changed my mind (so basically you can take one vote away from -2 and add one to -3)

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Man of kent
 Post subject: Re: Uncontrolled Swarms Poll
PostPosted: Wed Feb 16, 2011 3:28 pm 
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making the score 13 to 17

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