To be honest, I'm getting pretty tired of people telling me how to win a game of Epic.
I'm certainly not the best player in the world and I'm certainly not the worst. I know how to play Epic and win games.

Well then don't use an engagement when you have been caught in a bad situation by the marine player, and heavily paid for it, to try and demonstrate a perceived issue with the list if you don't want mistakes highlighting.

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Its called an ambush, I understand from reading your other posts, that it was you who suggested it to your opponent and helped them set it up - to see what would happen. But you basically set up an astonishingly good ambush and the Tau were slaughtered by it.

E&C thats unfair. Onyx never said he "wanted Tau to be better a FF than marines". His point is that (if I may paraphrase) "1700 points of Tau should kill more than 3 or 4 marine units in a FF".

That kind of "debating" is overly confrontational, and will only deter people from future contributions.

That said...



In game terms.. because the Tau are designed to be not good at engagements and the marines are designed to be very good at them. The Tau are an army that should seek to avoid engagements, while the marines should seek them.

In "fluff" terminology I would imagine this kind of engagement would be best considered an "ambush". The Tau have wandered into an area where the marines have surounded them, opening fire from all sides at once. The Tau do not do much damage because they are far more concerned with "getting the hell outta there".

I do understand your dilema "why are the Tau very good at 15cm when shooting but suddenly poor at FF (also 15cm)". It is slightly odd but its how the Tau have been designed in order to create a unique army style. It forces the Tau to be played in a different manner to other armies, which is why I prefer that design rational, over the more obvious modelling of that Tau as generally good at short range (FF4 etc).

Alright.

As usual, a good nights sleep has helped clear my head.
I regret taking this issue as far as I have.
My points are valid and were made a long time ago.
I won't be taking this any further unless asked to (directly or indirectly).

Steve.

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Well, new person here. Not really into Epic, but I am into the Tau and I figured since I have them in every other system might as well move on to this one. I've read the list, read the various development threads.

I would simply ask for opinions - do people think that the list as current behaves as the Tau in the fluff are portrayed as fighting? Sources are always nice. Speaking as a person who doesn't play Epic yet, I'm more interested in playing the Tau more than the uniqueness of the play style. I have heard that Epic is more about each army being 'as it should be', game balance notwithstanding, and that is what draws me to the game.

I'm curious to what people think.

Yes and no, depends how you spin it.

Either no, they are too weak at short range. When in a firefight(FF) (what is typically the size/range of fighting in 40k) they don't fair as well as they should given their weapons.

or....

yes, they have a lot of ranged weapons, preferring to stay out of very close range fighting (whilst still having 15cm (epic FF range) weapons) where there is a greater risk to loss of life. Where they fight best is where the enemy cannot shoot back (that instant).

Welcome to the board and the discussion

(
I still maintain from a fluff point of view that they ought to have either the stingray or the scorpionfish for long range AP against orks/tyranids
)

In that case can we make up some long range artillery for SM as well - its really difficult to first strike the opponents deployment zone with SM as it is.

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Terminators are living artillery!
Also, full T/hawks do just fine for the Marines.

Anyway, back on topic.

Welcome to Tactical Command professorcurly. Kivarn summed up the Tau list pretty clearly.

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Tau also have plenty of AP weapons - each list does not need every option.

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I agree with you Steve. I wasn't implying that Tau need Scorpionfishes or Stingrays back.
I was merely pointing out that Marines do not lack for hitting any part of the board with great power.

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Plus the Tau already have long range AP weapons .. they're called Ion Hammerheads

Shush you i just like them ... and they have no close combat option

pretty sure unfair is saying I said better than when I said "as well as"

anyway I agree let's drop the subject.

Sorry for terse reply am on a phone

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Lol, I don't know if you are being serious or joking me E&C...

That I said "better" instead of "as well as" inside a paraphrased item is clearly besides the point.

I would also note that even if I had made that choice of words intentionally (which I didn't) you do say (and this time I am quoting you directing) "He wants to firefight Marines and win" which has a definate lean of "better" in it.

Looking at the picture you posted it wasn't just 450 points of Marines though, that may have been what was directly involved in the engagement but it wasn't all that the Tau faced or all that the Marines used (points wise).

You're including all the support and the effects that came with it, for the marines, in the working out of the assault result and the Tau's demise but are then neglecting to include the cost of those units in the summary of the action.

If you want to compare the effectiveness of 1700 points of Tau against 450 points of Marines in a FF engagement then OK, see what a straight fight between the 2 would do.

Run the stats with the 2 formations but do it without the inclusion of all the support elements of the marines and the effects this adds to the result. There wouldn't be any BM's on either formation (no support to lay BM's), Also include any inspiring Characters, outnumbering etc. etc.

If it still comes out with the marines on top then you can claim "450 points of Marines beats 1700 points of Tau in an engage".

Though I have a feeling not may of the Marines would be around afterwards if average Dice rolls are used.