I've always played it only rolling for identical units together. Since the objective of speed rolling is just to combine rolls together to save time rather than change the probabilities of particular units surviving, this would seem like the more sensible approach.

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I've played both ways and I believe both ways are legal.

At tournaments I usually agree to play it the same way as my opponent wants to play.

As long as both are playing the same it doesn't matter.

But Epic is a wargame, not a cat in a box!

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I'd actually expect that if you don't allocate by exact type you'd be expected to allocate individually.

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Aye, I would guess that pretty much any speed rolling method is legal, since none is specified (though one is recommended)

However if we wanted to nail this down and settle this then the recommendation would be the first port of call - though we would have to agree exactly what the recommendation says!

The rules say that you are supposed to roll for each unit under the template. The speed rules are "recommended" so if there's a question, I think you have to default to each unit individually.

As far as the speed rolling suggestion, I always read "exactly the same type" to mean the same unit name, not unit type, e.g. IG troops and Fire Support separately rather than all infantry, because going by unit name gives almost identical results to rolling for each unit individually. Going by infantry/AV categories can potentially give a pretty radically different result, e.g. hitting a Land Raider versus hitting the attached Hunter.

That said, in practice the guys I play with often just do it by unit type because most of the time the difference is not worth messing with. It's only when there is something critical, like the Supreme Commander, that we break it down.

I may have missed something here, but I don't seem much of an issue. I think people are confusing resolving the shooting and applying hits, with the act of resolving hits and removing casualties.

As others have mentioned, separate the dice out by target type and throw separately for WE, AT and AP, in cover or in the open - so potentially up to six groups of dice (though usually onyl one - three groups). Throw each group separately and apply the hits front-to-back to the relevant units under the template(s). If non-barrage weapons are also firing, apply any of these hits as well, avoiding 'doubling up' hits until all units have been allocated a hit.

IMHO it is the act of resolving casualties that is more contentious.
Many people speed up saving throws by grouping together target units of the same type and removing them from front-to-back. This is usually fine, but not always so as it tends to keep the target formation more grouped together. This approach can come unstuck where the template(s) fall entirely within the enemy formation.

Obviously 'special' units need to be considered separately, which is where everything slows down as you consider Grots, characters, different armour values and units with different numbers of hits etc as separate rolls, and often you end up rolling a separate resolution for each target unit that has been allocated hits.

Ginger, re-read the second quote in my first post. It actually does seem to state that you should roll the attacks separately by type not just designation.

I also consider barrage hits as a completely different set of allocation, but whether this should be before or after normal shooting adds in yet more complications.

Possibly... my contention is that the procedure for resolving your shooting differs in wording sufficently between the "standard" shooting rules and the "barrage" shooting rules that slightly different procedures apply in-game.

I get the impression that the majority either agree with my interpretation, or think that both interpretations are equally valid, with only a few staunchly holding to the view that the "standard" shooting rules apply to both styles of shooting.

Nealhunt has elucidated the presumed difference in shooting procedures better than I have managed.



I think there's something in the FAQ about how to apply mixed standard and barrage hits (In essence Ginger's "try not to double-up hits" rule applies, IIRC).

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If you do it by the strict letter and attack each unit under the barrage, those are effectively hit and allocated at the same time. Any normal shooting allocation would go front to back and wouldn't double up until every unit had a hit allocated, effectively skipping the units hit by the barrage.

So, if you're using a speed rolling system, I think you have to allocate the barrage first because that's how it would be done with a strict RAW process.

so the rule is to roll to hit each unit under the template once.

1 grot, 2 boyz.

you roll for the grot if it hits then the allocation for that hit can only go to the grot
you roll for a boy, again the allocation for that hit can only go to that boy
you roll for the next boy, blah blah.

speed rolling in exact style says
roll for the grot, allocation only goes to that grot
roll 2 dice for the boyz, allocation goes from front to back for those two boyz

it's slightely faster, and in some cases much faster than individual rolling.

now i agree that, if the opponent agrees, you can go for much courser speed rolling. Presumably one should ask permission before you start throwing dice.

I ahve always read that second quote to imply that hits to friend and foe are rolled and applied together, front-to-back under the template - though I suspect that most people would probably separate them out.

On formations shooting with a mix of different weapons, it may be simpler to keep the two processes entirely separate (and the end result is likely to be the same), but it can cause some anomalies. Removing initial shooting casulaties first before processing the barrage weapons could easily affect the placement of the barrage template - so you just have to remember to do the barrage weapons first.


Snap Neal

alansa: That's certainly how I've always played it.

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except if the barrage is MW, tee hee

IMHO this is not quite right Alansa
1) roll three dice for the infantry targets under the template (lets assume it hits 1x grot and 2x boys)
2) roll the saves for the grot and boys separately. Speed rolling allows you to roll both boys together removing the nearest to the shooter as a casualty.

Now if the grot and boys are the only targets, and you only hit two out of the three, the question is where to allocate the hits. And I have always played that this is done front-to-back relative to the shooter within the template. So, if the grot is at the back of the template, it does not get allocated a hit.