- yes they are but when they are covering the AV stuff from getting shot at then it is an advantage. Right?
- They are nids the shouldn't do much of that anyways.
- Not really sure what you mean with this?
- Most of the nid stuff is expensive. Hell gaunts are pretty expensive if you ask me.
- Again nids, they really shouldn't have much in th ways of armor, but they do have more then gaunts do.
- Ok but then they need higher number to be hit on. So those 4+ AT shots are now 5+ so not as many going through. And forget it if they moved at the double. 6+

I don't know, I don't think those are really big disadvantages. I just think they are a tad bit to strong. I mean a CC 3+ come on.

Are you playing 40K or Epic:A?

LV can be hit by both AP and AT weapons. Enemy do not gain a negative to hit moving targets



If you are buying up AV and LV units for a horde army such as this, you are reducing the effectiveness of the 'horde' on the table. Gaunts are nowhere near as expensive as Raveners and you probably end up getting better 'bang for the buck' if you include these to complement the Raveners. Also do not ignore the weaknesses of no shooting and crappy armour. As an opponent, you need to use these against the nids where possible. Hurt them with shooting and then charge where possible. If expecting a charge, use Overwatch to help yourself out. Sniper is also a handy skill against the nids.



They are 5+ FF. Engage them in a FF assault (10-15cm) after shooting at them (to give them the BM) and calculate your chances of winning. Only bad luck will muffle a well planned charge in this respect.

Also, use air support vs Nids. Once the Nid player has to pay for air defence, he is eating into his 'on table' effectiveness.

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I'm pretty sure he's refering to the benefits of cover. You say they can't get a save from cover, being LVs, and the reply is that cover is still a benefit because of the modifiers on shooting, so your disadvantage is not so much of a disadvantage.

This is good advice. In addition your air will do a lot of damage to LV units because you can use all their weapons loadout (Most planes come with some APonly weapons and some AT only weapons). That's 3 shots each for thunderbolts and 2 shots each for nightwings.

Yes this is what I was talking about.

Well I have issues with aircraft too, but that is for a different forum..lol

Frogbear.

I play nids, I am not hating on them because I play against them. I am hating on the raveners because there is something that needs to be done with them. They seem a bit to powerful for me, And all I hear on here is take raveners blah blah blah. They are the best. Well yeah they are, when they can cover anything in the formation and don't recieve BM's and have a CC3+, you see my point? I kinda think they should be more like this.

armor5+ CC4+ FF4+ After all they do have alot of shots and it would give them a different reason to be there at least in thoery. I think broods should also get BM's for every 2 kills, I just don't see enough BM's going on formations. Eh " shrugs " What do I know I am a newb.

There are definite changes that need to be made in this list. No disagreement from me.

I believe Raveners are there merely to protect Warriors from getting shot. I play nids as well. The prospect that the list may one day get an upgrade keeps me 'at the gates'.

You have to understand, I like taking the 'devils advocate' on most issues to really understand and promote discussion. Without that, lists go nowhere. So my initial observations were done to test myself as much as to test your statement.

Do you have a game to show how the effects on a table were unreasonable? I would be interested to understand how your opponent played and how many times they have played against the nids in the past.

The fact that a 'blind' list has issues against nids is a problem in itself that I do not believe may ever be fixed (I have no answer for this either at present).

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Well I know myself when I have played them I have not gotten any units broken, now mind you we are also new at playing epic and new with nids all together. But it just seems like they should be getting something, I do think the expendable rule is fine, just maybe toned down to 2 kills equal a BM. At least from what I have seen in the few games that I have played and seen played.

The thing that really got me worked up about the raveners is, my friend used them and that is all he took for his common broods. I understand what they were disigned to do but honestly I think they do that job to well. He brought so many of them that the marine player didn't even really get to the warriors until turn 3 shooting. Luckily he didn't get to bring back that many raveners as they are cost of 2 to bring back, which is a good thing. I dont know after I saw that I just began to really see them as to over powered.

I think they are a nice unit to keep in the list, just some tweeking would be good, at least in my eyes. There are some other stuff I would also change. Genestealers, they need CC3+ more then the raveners anyways. I don't know really just a couple of ideas. Why were the Stealers only CC4+?

Please, no! This list needs to be finalized, not updated again.

Variant lists are fine, but what we really need is a stable and definitive list to work from. After all, there can be no variant lists if there's no master list...

Raveners cost almost twice as much as Termagants and Termagants only count half their casuaties in assault, which is really useful. This means that for almost the same price, you can have twice as many FF5+ attacks and a better assault resolution.

Clipping assault (i.e. positioning your troops at one end of a formation so as to have lots of attacks and very few replies) are also much more effective against an all-Raveners brood than against a mixed or all-Gaunts brood : it's harder for the opponent to get a high bonus in combat res because of the "half casualties" thing.

Overall I like the nid list a lot, but I find it quite expensive, particularly the Uncommon broods who could get a small discount and still be far from overpowered. Oh, and Hormagaunts could be cheaper too (4 for 50 points, anyone?).

I do like the hormagaunts for 50pts. lol

Yeah again, new guy so that clipping stuff is easier said then done...lol I am still trying to play the game period..lol

I'm not a fan of splitting Army Lists based on model ranges. It creates an unnecessary divide between new players and old players, new model owners and old model owners, especially if the lists might have radically different Special Rules for things that frankly should remain the same (Spawning, Synapse, etc).

Basically Epic is at a combat scale where the biological differences between a slug beast with guns (old model) and a biped Carnifex beast with guns (new model) can very easily be abstracted into one 'gun beast' stat line giving the player the freedom to choose new or old models.
Not to mention I don't envy the list writer who intends to keep up with GW's 40k collectable model game, Epic in it's current lists for Marines, IG, Orks, etc has managed to not pander to current 40k model bonanza's and stick to the core ethos and style of army in question- from the good old days. I'd hate to see Tyranids start the Codex Creep trend.

I still firmly believe 'variant lists' should be justified by being a different playstyle for the army rather than a 'core list + model X' affair.
For example, I think Scions does a great job of introducing a style of play the Air Assault list lacks, whilst the DA/BA lists can't really justify their existance as 'core SM list + 1-3 new models'.
For Tyranids I'd be interested in 'Spore Drop Assault lists' and 'Tyranid Titan lists', but not really interested in 'Core Tyranid List + Tervigon' etc.

Of course, that's just my opinion and the great thing about TacComms is that all those lists (the one's I like and dislike) will be created and tried, and debated. Besides which my own Churoninx list is a hypocritical divergence from the 'core tyranid list' much like the other contendors for 'core tyranid list' I argued against...

Creepy. Jeridian, do you have a direct connection to my mind or what? That's exactly what I think, except you said it much than I could ever have.

Only when within Synapse range.