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Death Guard v2.x

 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:26 pm 
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Hmm liking it so far. just a few questions.

1. does taking a demon pool give you access to 1 infantry and 1 vehicle support?
2. shouldn't it be Contagion Engines not towers?
3. would changing Death Guard Chaos Marines -> Death Guard Legionnaires or something else help avoid confusion between them and Plague Marines I know I sometimes have issues..
4. Terminators seem a touch expensive.
5. Indomitable is spelt Intomitable in the sidebar
6. part of me thinks that the 1 infantry, 1 vehicle support is going to force people into wierd builds, possibly pushing people to maxing out on titans. I know I love my Demon Engines but as Titans selection isn't affected by the support formation maxes I can see people maxing out on Titans rather than taking Plague Reapers and Plague Towers as they don't use support slots or taking really small DG mechanised formations to open up support slots, rather than much cooler large garrisoning DG infantry formations. Possible fixes would be to combine the infantry/vehicle sections together and then set it as 2 or 3 support formations per main formation.. I know what the list is aiming for with the ruling but I think it might actually do the opposite of what it's intended to do. but I might be wrong here.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 3:44 pm 
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Hena wrote:
mageboltrat wrote:
Hmm liking it so far. just a few questions.
6. I would like to see how it pans out. Currently it follows the Black Legion suggestion. I want to keep the infantry and vehicle support separate to prevent anyone from taking too many vehicles. The aim is to keep the army a walker based so I don't want to allow too many wheels :).


I understand that but I get the feeling it's going to lead to something very different. I reckon you are going to force people into very wierd builds. The base Death Guard are a bit cheap so I can see them being used as popcorn units and then people still stocking up on vehicles. I would be tempted to up the size of the base DG formation so it comes in around 350, but much more tough to stop popcorning or taking them to get access to more vehicles, that alone will mean that most people will have two chunky infantry formations. Which is a good feeling for the army. but then open up the support to allow more Demon Engines as support.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 4:31 pm 
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Hena wrote:
mageboltrat wrote:
Hmm liking it so far. just a few questions.

1. does taking a demon pool give you access to 1 infantry and 1 vehicle support?

1. Nope. I would separate it out but it adds to the length. I've yet to discover how to do it nicely :D.


I think you need to seperate it. Because besides the above issue, there's nothing to stop me taking...
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
And then 3 of each Infantry and Vehicle.

If it's an issue with regards the page formatting, shifting the (One per) conditionals to the left of the subheading rather than below, could fit it in on the front page. Or put it at the end, after the upgrades.

Just some things I've noticed.
- DGCSM's have a 5+AT value on their Autocannons
- Warlord should be mentioned as 'free', in addition to being compulsory. I spent a minute trying to find out how much it cost, after reading it was compulsory.
- Some technical inconsistancies with regards Rhino/DGRhino and LR/DGLRaider, in that you can't buy DGRhinos for formations. Intent is obvious, but...
- Dreadclaws might be an issue with them currently under review in the Black Legion list. Also, similarly with Hellblades/Talons.
- Plaguereapers are paying 75pts for Fearless? Seems a little pricey, but yeah, I can understand erring on the side of caution. Still suffers from the War Engine formation thing, rare I'd consider fielding them in packs.
- Desecrator price bump gets rid of any issues I had there. Yay!
- Core formation just squeaks a little on cost. A 4/4 split in Red Corsairs costs in at 325, and DGCSM are significantly better than Corsair CSM. Don't have much concern with anything else, except the LatD stuff (Contagion/Plague) seems weird that same cost for better Initiative.

Anyways, just some thoughts.

Morgan Vening


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 5:38 pm 
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Hena wrote:
Morgan Vening wrote:
I think you need to seperate it. Because besides the above issue, there's nothing to stop me taking...

Well it's the same in LatD list. I'll try to figure that out. But for now just not play like that :).

Just look at the NetEA Chaos document, the Daemon Pool becomes its own "section", not part of Core or Support.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:09 pm 
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Mageboltrat has pointed out to me that you can make an army of 7x Retinues and 7x teleporting fearless Zombie formations using this army list.

Well, that's just silly. And likely broken-powerful.

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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 9:17 pm 
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I might get out my Orks, and Traitor Guard, and Eldar and Spacemarines and try it out


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Just on an initial view, why not make the Terminators 'Indomitable' too? Any minimisation of Fearless is always a good thing.


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Thu Apr 08, 2010 10:45 pm 
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Hena wrote:
Morgan Vening wrote:
I think you need to seperate it. Because besides the above issue, there's nothing to stop me taking...
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
Daemon Pool (1 Lesser)
And then 3 of each Infantry and Vehicle.

Well it's the same in LatD list. I'll try to figure that out. But for now just not play like that :).


But what if I don't wanna! Rules say I can! :D

Hena wrote:
Quote:
- Dreadclaws might be an issue with them currently under review in the Black Legion list. Also, similarly with Hellblades/Talons.

I'll keep an eye for them. Aircraft should follow Black Legion. Dreadclaws shouldn't need changing as cost isn't changing in Black Legion.


I was more referring to matching stats. Apparently the Dreadclaws lose the Deathwind in favour of scattering. It's more the apparent differing of stats (like with the Aircraft). Maybe a notation for the three saying "* As per Black Legion List"? It's one of the issues I see with making an alternate list to an un-cemented Core List.

Hena wrote:
Quote:
Don't have much concern with anything else, except the LatD stuff (Contagion/Plague) seems weird that same cost for better Initiative.

I'm actually thinking of marking them separately to be ini 2+ :).


You could always do a small pump (350?), and explain the difference as being the Daemons in control are not tempted to bomb the crap out of 'allied units' (them all being Nurgle), and that makes up for the inaction the LatD ones suffer from.

Morgan Vening


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 Post subject: Re: Death Guard v2.2
PostPosted: Sat Apr 10, 2010 9:17 am 
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Hena wrote:
frogbear wrote:
Just on an initial view, why not make the Terminators 'Indomitable' too? Any minimisation of Fearless is always a good thing.

They are the elite. I don't see the problem of them having fearless.


Yes, on paper it is fine

How many games have you played and come up against squads of 6 Fearless Terminators?

How did you defeat them and what did it take?

Speaking from experience myself, they are not fun to play against. If they are not fun to play against, opponents to the list will be few and far between. That in turn will effect the playability and acceptance of the list for the future.


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