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Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.3

 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:28 pm 
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Quote: (nealhunt @ Feb. 19 2010, 14:16 )

Looks like a very good start.  Did you rip from Lord_I's Inquisition list?

I used it as the basis for a lot of it, yes, but there are quite a few changes in prices, formations and unit stats.

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Though I can see that Marauders are aircraft and the only barrage in a very short-ranged list which might make them disproportionately valuable, I think you could start with the lower Marauder point cost from the NetEA mods.


What's the recommended cost? I only remembered the BP change. And yes, I can actually see Marauders getting some use in this list, which would be a rarity  :laugh: The Lunar looks a lot more tempting here than it does in the guard too.

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The Exorcist point cost might be something to watch.  Cross-army comparison caveats and all that, but they are worse than Predators regarding firepower, don't have TSKNF and are only available to formations with much shorter ranged weapons which somewhat mitigates the advantages of their range.


Preditors were my baseline, yes. They're also the only decently ranged shooting most formations can get. Note that at this point a lot of the points costs are total guesswork and will probably change once playtested a little.

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I agree that the 0-1 on the Repentia is a bit odd.  Do you really think it's needed?  Background-wise a "Repentia crusade" might be a cool army idea.  With respect to balance they don't seem like especially good units to form the backbone of a list.  You might just be able to drop it.


It's there for two reasons. Firstly to avoid the potential an all fearless army. Secondly they're very limited in numbers in 40k, though that's a very minor concern; If you think the potential all fearless list isn't a problem then I'll gladly lose the limit.

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Finally ... no Ministorum Cathedral?  Maybe I'm still mired in older background fiction but the Sororitas tracked fortress seems like such an iconic image that it would be a shame not to include it.


Yes, I will definitely be including a mobile cathedral in some form, but I wanted to start simple and work upwards.

Do you have any background references for the cathedral? All I can find is a picture in background in the Witch Hunters book.




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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 4:35 pm 
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1+ is staying; the army would be useless without it, and I still think it's completely fine background-wise. Lord I's list had the same.

If you need another reason consider it a part of their faithfulness. If they're so dedicated to the emperor that they can perform miracles, following orders is not going to be a problem.




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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:04 pm 
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Random thought: in Dawn of War the sisters use Lightning fighters. I could replace the thunderbolts with them.

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:10 pm 
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Allied Lightnings or actual sister piloted and colour-schemed ones?


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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:20 pm 
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Allied I presume; the ecclesiarchy aren't allowed naval assets of their own.

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:55 pm 
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Just curious. Think my preference would still be Thunderbolts, as making them Lightnings feels more like difference for difference's sake, rather than really adding anything to the character of the list, but I have no strong feelings either way.

I think Repentia's should probably stay 0-1 and would like to see a Basillca Imperialis in the list.

Removing MW from the Arco-Flagellants to make them different from Repentias is probably a good idea. Maybe give them a lower CC and an extra attack instead though?


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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 5:59 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ Feb. 19 2010, 15:28 )

Do you have any background references for the cathedral? All I can find is a picture in background in the Witch Hunters book.

I have vague and uncorroborated memories of it being mentioned when the SoB were first introduced and having seen at least a couple different illustrations of such a vehicle since then.

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 6:54 pm 
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Lord I interpretted it as a Basillica Imperialis, but I'm loathe to include a DC 12 war engine, especially one for which there is so little background.

For my Redeptionist list I interpreted it in a more toned down manner:

Code Sample: 

                    Cathedral of Purification

The rarest, and most horrifying of the Redemption’s arsenal is the Cathedral of Purification. These
great tracked vehicles are fuelled by death, as sinners and their instruments of sin are burnt in their
great furnaces to drive them ever onwards.

Armed with an array of cleansing weapons, they are only ever deployed in the great crusades, where they
provide a mobile place of worship and ranged fire support to the faithful masses. Few have looked upon
their gothic façade without feeling genuine terror.


Type            Speed           Armour        Close Combat      Firefight
War Engine      15cm            4+            3+                3+

Weapon                  Range   Firepower       Notes
2x Inferno Cannon       30cm    AP3+            Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward Arc
Prometheum Rockets      60cm    BP4             Ignore Cover, Fixed Forward Arc
2x Twin Flak Autocannon 45cm    AP4+/AT5+/AA5+

Damage Capacity 6. Critical Hit Effect: A fuel tank explodes, causing an extra point of damage.

Notes: Reinforced Armour, Thick Rear Armour, Fearless, Inspiring, Transport (12 infantry units or
Penitent Engines. Penitent Engines take up two spaces each)



What are the current stats of a capitol imperialis or leviathan? They're the closest units currently I think




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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:32 pm 
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From a comparison I did in another thread, trying to get a handle on the stats for Leviathan and CI variants from all the variant lists:

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Leviathans: 4-6 DC, 0-2 void shields, MW barrage, Battle Cannon, 6 gun mounts, 4+RA, TRA, very good FF/CC (usually 3+ for both), Transport 14-20 units (no vehicles).  Point cost in the 400-500 range.

Conceptually the Leviathans seem to be ultra-heavy duty transports and a bigger, badder, SHT.  The Squat/Demiurg variants are on the tougher end of the range and/or upgunned.  DS's old school description is accurate; it had more of a command/control focus.  EA versions seem to replace that with more of a "transporting the SC formation" emphasis.

Obviously, your Cathredral of Purification is much more along these lines, Zombo.

Quote: 

Capital Imperialis (Inquisitorial Fortress and SoB Basilica are similar in stats and role):  10-12 DC, 0-5 void shields, large-ish barrage with special ability, secondary weaponry roughly equal to 1 titan weapon,  4+RA, TRA, good FF/CC value (4+ or 5+), Transport 15-20 units plus ~3 vehicles, usually Supreme Commander, abilities for mounted units to fire/CC/FF.  Point cost in the 500-700 range.

Conceptually, Capital Imperialis and variants are major mobile command centers, though they also scale up the leviathan transport and WE/SHT abilities.  Again, DS's old school description of a super transport (I believe it could even transport a SHT company in SM2) is accurate.  That seems to be almost universally rewritten (from Jervis' lead) in the recent versions.

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 7:49 pm 
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Thanks Zombocom, will try and take a look as soon as possible

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:09 pm 
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Mmm, good to know I ended up in the right area. I'm likely to go more along the 6DC path, I'm just not keen on the change a 12DC war engine can make to the list. It would become all about the basillica and not about the sisters.

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Fri Feb 19, 2010 8:46 pm 
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Quote: (Chroma @ Feb. 19 2010, 13:54 )

What's the reason for the Sisters' Hunter to have better armour than a Marine Hunter?  Sv4+ vs Sv5+

Double checked, and the online rulebook definitely has 4+ for the hunter. Another error from the update?

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Wed Feb 24, 2010 11:55 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ Feb. 19 2010, 19:09 )

. It would become all about the basillica and not about the sisters.

Include it as a 'untested, unbalanced unit' a bit like the Ork Mega-Gargant?

I'm building a smaller thing for 40k which doubles as the army case.


It makes sense to me, especially as the Sister's don't field a true line tank beyond the exorcist, that there'd be various classes of Traction Shrine

Shrine, chapel, Church, Catherdra, abbey



The ideas came from both the two page spread in WH codex, but also in the linked designer notes, they mentioned they considered how Sisters took to the field en-masse, with rolling cathedrals et al.

Thinking about it, they might actually have been hinting at epic?

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 Post subject: Adeptus Ministorum Orders Militant v1.0
PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 12:11 am 
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Quote: (madd0ct0r @ Feb. 24 2010, 22:55 )

The ideas came from both the two page spread in WH codex, but also in the linked designer notes, they mentioned they considered how Sisters took to the field en-masse, with rolling cathedrals et al.

Thinking about it, they might actually have been hinting at epic?

Any idea where I could find these notes? Are they in the codex?

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