That is the intention. In earlier testing it was determined that providing valks for the upgrades provided too much firepower. Now you may choose smaller formations that are airmobile (i.e. keep their transport around) or a larger drop company.

What I am a little bit curious about is the blend of the two, that is, small + valks + upgrade. I think there are some interesting possibilities with that formation, even though it's mobility is reduced. I'll be testing some of those assumptions in March when the review takes place.

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Just trying to wrap my head around this list a bit more.

1) There is no explicit restriction to one of each company upgrade. Is this assumed, or can a company of, say 1 Commander, 7 Guard Infantry, and 6 Fire Support teams be taken at 350pt? That would put out nearly twice the firepower of a standard SL Company at +100pts.

2) The primary AT firepower is in the form of Vultures and AC, correct? This is a list where I might consider taking a SC for the Pinpoints.

3) Why would I pay more to put an Infantry Company in Valks than to get a Storm Trooper Platoon in same? I understand the infantry are costed more because of the CC and Teleport, but downcost the Valks to compansate. I get 5+ Armor, better firefighht, and AP/AT shooting for 10 pts less? Something seems wrong here.

4) I'm still wary of putting my trust in Armor- FF5+ CC5+ troops with no ranged fire at all. It would seem to take more than one formation to bring down anything moderately substantial, after which the remaining activations in the opponent's list would tear the armorless troops to bits. It does appear to be a fairly high activation army, but not so much that it can afford a 2:1 ratio in assault. Am I missing something?

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Don't feel bad, I'm still on a learning path myself.



Well, there should be. Chalk it up to a typo. I did think it was in there, but will catch that when we get into the review period in March.



That is correct and I have fielded the SC. In my few tests, it performed moderately well.



Now that you point that out, it does look a little funky and that wasn't intentional. What the DC allows is access to upgrades, allowing it to grow, become more effective, or specialized. A ST has no upgrades.

That being said, I think we should look at that in March. It's a good point.



Well, the Krieg do that and overcome the shortage with numbers. Given that the Elysians are not going to field the huge numbers other mechanisms have to come into effect. One concept to think on a bit is that "elite" type armies don't necessarily have to have a complete advantage all across the battlefield. They just need to be superior (whether that is with numbers or equipment) where they are focused.

So in my games, I tend to gain a local advantage that allows me to handicap the opponent's plan later on. That may mean dropping in at a 3:1 advantage at some specific point on the table to eliminate a particularly troublesome formation and remove that capability from impacting your operations later on.

There is a quote (made up) in the list about striking at the "heart" and "head" of an opponent. That line is to remind us Elysian players to strike fatal blows. If you drop in and take the low hanging fruit (i.e. bait) in your opponent's list, you will not have accomplished enough to prevent your eventual destruction.

So your observation is not insignificant. The Elysians are not an insignificant list to field. They are tough to play as it takes some games to figure out your style with them given the palette of available tools. I've approached them a number of different ways (e.g. all airmobile, all drop, hybrid) and I'm still working on what I think the right mix is for me.

They are fun though.  

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

OK, this is in there. I was going off of the Army Compandium list, where it is not stated, but now that I have the actual list you wrote out I see it. BTW, there are some discrepancies in the NetEA document and yours. MDs have more Rockets (4), and the Iron Discipline is not included, to be precise. Now I've found the original, there will be no more misunderstandings (than neccessary).

Off to work on a starting list...

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Well, the discrepancies are my fault. Chroma asked me to review and I did a quick glance over and everything "seemed" in place. So my bad.

I'll add that to the task list for the Review. Thanx for catching that.

I'm looking forward to seeing what kind of list you build.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

All right, here's what I've got.

Drop HQ Company with Valkyries 435
Reinforced Drop Infantry Company 300
Reinforced Drop Infantry Company 300
Drop Infantry Company 200
Storm Trooper Platoon 350
Support Sentinals 250
Support Sentinals 250
Marauder Destroyer Squadron 375
Lightning Strike Fighter Squadron 200
Lightning Interceptor Squadron 300

2960 Total

3 Drop Companies are my main force, probably going after Infantry formations where possible. Drop HQ and Storm Troopers are my mobile Reserve, also allowing the SC to start on table. Support Sentinals will lay BMs for when the DCs go in. Lightning Interceptors are CAP. Lightning Strike and Marauder Destroyers are my AT; these two formations will give me a total of 10x AT4+ and 6x AT5+. That's nearly the same AT firepower as a Tank Company.

I decided to forgo Drop Sentinals, due to short range, though they could prove decisive in assault. Vultures, I'm on the fence about. On the one hand, the AT they put out is insane first turn, but on the other, its almost all OS. The AC have consistancy in their favor, and also can not be targeted except by AA, increasing survivability. For now, we'll use just the AC, and see if Vultures are even needed.

As for DC upgrades, I went with the principle that the DCs will never be good at shooting attacks, so I won't try to make them. They need to assault to be effective, and there need to be enough stands to keep a local numerical advantage. Therefore, 2 of the three have added platoons.

For now at least, this is a theoryhammer army: I have no Valkyries, none of the AC, and would have to get some Sentinals to convert. The funds aren't there right now, however. C&C would be appreciated anyway, as this is an army I on my shortlist of 'to dos,' right after my footy Orks. Da Greenz are only first because of the ease of aquisition - Ork infantry are the next best thing to free. Sometimes they are free!

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

This is where theory and practice diverge.  This Elysian formation would teleport in and -with 14 stands of infantry- take at around 2 BMs.  The problem you run into is when you actually try firing your now suppressed weapons.  If you are are more than 15cm away from your enemy, every BM goes to supress a unit that has range and LOS vs the enemy formation.  That means that the Elysian formation -which carries with it BMs like they were pets- is rarely able to bring its full firepower to bear on an enemy.  Whereas a standard IG list with mysterious floating autocannons on every other stand simply get to count up their troops that aren't suppressed, divide by two, and fire away.

And if you have only two or three ranged units in a Drop Troop Company, it is possible they may never fire due to supression rules.

Not a complaint, just an observation you can't get from paper.

I played the Elysians in two games yesterday at the Rockville event.  One game vs. AMTL and another versus ground pounding Space Marines.  Anyone want to venture a guess as to how the games went?  

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

As one of the opponents from yesterday I'd agree that the list is very unforgiving. On the other hand, you won against AMTL so stop complaining you baby.

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Dave

Blog

NetEA Tournament Pack Website

Squats 2019-10-17

Hmmm... in this situation, we've counted the number of units that can fire total to work out the autocannons, and then suppress from there, since only the units "with" autocannons are in range, they're the ones that get suppressed.

So, eight Infantry units with four Blast markers can't shoot at all unless within 15cm of the enemy.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Is this in an FAQ, the rules, or just how you have personally resolved the situation?

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

I'll play this list tonight, see how it goes.

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[b][color=#FF00BF]Chief DreadKnight Apologist[/color][/b]

Appreciate the playtest, fattdex. Tell me if there are any comments/deficancies you notice...

SG

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SG

Ghost's Paint Blog, where everything goes that isn't something else.

Sure, will try it per the tactics there as best as possible. Playing versus orks so I figure it will be best to pop-up and strafe them turn one, deep strike and bash turn 2, clean-up and objective grab turn 3. I have land speerder valkyries, termagaunt drop troopers and space marine commissars ;-)

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[b][color=#FF00BF]Chief DreadKnight Apologist[/color][/b]

Well, this is how we've played it here, as it seemed to make the most sense.

You only suppress units that have the ability to shoot and are in range; at anything more than 15cm, only the units "with" autocannons will be in range, so they're the only ones that can be suppressed.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Played your list last night vs orks- Won after 4th turn on countback Did not take as many casualties as I thought, but since the orks have the ability to move such large formations large distances, it made the decision where to teleport and how to claim the objectives quite hard.

Turn one

He took one group of fighta bommers and 2 flak wagons in mobs for AA. i put the lightnings on cap, he put the fighters on cap, I moved the strikes in to attack a gunwagon at the back of a tank mob triggering his cap then my cap.  I jinked with the strikes and they came out fine, lightnings easily destroyed his fighters. Marauders killed a stompa and 2 dreads.


I used the tactic of saving teleporters for turn two. He overextended his move with a BTS big mob in turn one so I unleashed stormtrooper valk rocket pods on it to do some damage killing some troops and adding a good deal of blast markers. He then doubled a gunwagon formation next to them, killing a valk and 2 troopers. I flew in the HQ valkyrie formation to havy bolter some more big mob troops.

Turn two

There was a lot of fire support already set up from the positioning of the valkyries and his moved up mobs, so it made teleporting an effective 2 troop formation assault setup there quite easy. teleported sentinels behind hills to shoot at his scouts that had holed up in a bunker midfield, teleported 2 other troop formations in advantageous cover positions further afield. blasted the big mob with rocket pods from hq troopers, then assault on big mob left only the warboss and a dc1 gunfortress to skulk away. blast markered the gunfortress off with the lightnings, blasted the stompas again for af few kills with marauders breaking them, did light damage on a speedsta (?) formation with strikes. marched a reinforced infantry formation up to the bunkered scouts in prep to assault. BTS was wiped out from gunwagons moving up to my baseline and shooting.

Turn three

Speedstas moved up tot he bunkered scouts ruining that plan a little. had to move some sentinels over to contest baseline that i was going to support assault with, killed 2 scouts shooting from other sentinels, made the assault anyway on the bunker. ended up killing the scouts, but getting broken by the supporting fire. Troops further up field went to move and fire on broken warboss to kill him but failed activation. air killed the stompa mob, picked a couple of broken formations. Stormtroopers were killed. Turn three stalemate, onto 4.

4

He had two broken units up the back of the field that didn't rally, i was able to engage one with the backmarker troops in forest cover who failed last turn almost wiping it out for one casualty in return. air picked off the broken stompa, did some minor damage on the speedstas. He didn't have enough formations left to protect all three objective\s in his half like he was hoping, and i had nothing in range/with enough range to contest anyway. not much more damage and was not able to dent the gunwagons that were sitting on my baseline without it being a suicide move.

In summary, I killed more units and was able to set up those assaults rather well, but was not able to make a final push very easily with lots of walking troops, and it was hard to deal with a large number of AV targets. The valkyries are nice and all, but die too quickly to fast moving units with a lot of at hits, even if he's hitting on 5's 6's and 7's the volume of fire nailed them.

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[b][color=#FF00BF]Chief DreadKnight Apologist[/color][/b]