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Current Eldar Lists
frogbear
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 1:11 pm 
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Quote: (stompzilla @ Dec. 28 2009, 21:05 )

Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 09:06 )

I guess it is a mute point.

I don't know whether that was intentional or not (I like to think it was) but that's a pretty damned funny pun.

:laugh:

:;):

“mootâ€Â

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Irisado
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 8:51 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 09:05 )

Quote: (Irisado @ Dec. 28 2009, 08:46 )

but is probably better discussed in a new thread, rather than in this one.

Why? It just needs a simple answer doesn't it? Then the Ac can take some initiative if required.

Simple answers to debates involving background and rules  :( ?!  I somehow doubt that I'm afraid.  Also, I didn't really think that raising it here really fits the topic of the thread.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:16 pm 
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Quote: (Irisado @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:51 )

Also, I didn't really think that raising it here really fits the topic of the thread.

Then let's just ignore the whole thing hey?  :handshake:

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Irisado
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Mon Dec 28, 2009 9:55 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 20:16 )

Quote: (Irisado @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:51 )

Also, I didn't really think that raising it here really fits the topic of the thread.

Then let's just ignore the whole thing hey?  :handshake:

I wasn't suggesting you should drop it, in fact, I thought it was an interesting point, but I just felt it was too off topic to discuss in detail here, but I'm not a moderator, so you don't have to agree with me  :) .  If you prefer to leave it though, that's your decision.

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illuvitar
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 5:15 am 
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one more last forlorn attempt to have some say in the army i most enjoy playing. the ulthwe list is too darn limited with the two troop per warhost rule. without this rule the craftworld still can only take 4 stand strong aspects, this is enough of a limit on the force. i know no one agrees and the list is somehow just too darn powerful unless this limitation is there ?? k im done now, poor dusty ulthwe army.
edit: to qoute myself from the ulthwe thread.
Quote: 

i repeat myself on this subject pretty continueously, i would just prefer a less limited ulthwe list, perhaps less predictable would be a better description.

chroma- any thoughts on a smaller gaurdian mech infantry host, maybe with a 0-1 only rule. somthing like 5 or 6 falcons with gaurdians and a farseer, maybe with heavy weapon option only ? its less limting than the current list but forces the three gaurdian hosts everyone else seems to think is important, plus they wouldn't be blck gaurdians so no complaints that too many 1+ int. companies are available.
as far as my ulthwe lists ill try and post a batrep of that I.G ulthwe battle i just played, i took some pics but i dont have anything written down besides the lists so itll be sketchy.

you may now all proceed to continue to ignore me. :shutup:




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Chroma
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:31 pm 
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Quote: (illuvitar @ Dec. 29 2009, 04:15 )

you may now all proceed to continue to ignore me. :shutup:

I don't believe anyone is ignoring you illuvitar, it's more that most seem to disagree with you.

I find I'm able to take many varied and unpredictable Ulthwé armies, even with the 2-per-1 limitation on Troupes.  With three Guardian formations (of either type), I can still take six other formations, with space for aircraft or Titans, giving a repectable 9-11 activations... just like many other Eldar armies; and three of those can be Aspect Troupes if desired.

Ulthwé is not the army to have lots of Aspect Warriors, obviously *laugh*, so what appearance/setup of army are you looking to build illuvitar?  Could you post, in a new thread, an example or two of the armies you're tying to build if the 2-for-1 restriction wasn't in place?

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Chroma
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 2:32 pm 
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Quote: (frogbear @ Dec. 28 2009, 20:16 )

Then let's just ignore the whole thing hey?  :handshake:

Why not just start a new thread?  

It seems to be of interest to you, but no one is going to be able to to easily find it deep in a thread titled "Current Eldar Lists".

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illuvitar
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 6:52 pm 
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Really not being ignored, not marginalized, no ? sorry you still havent answered the suggestion i made in that previous thread and that was what 6 months ago, but tooo late now right ? but your right no one you ever selectivly listened to agreed with me, only the other people that you regulerly dont pay attention too.

Quote: 

I do like the mech guardian idea. I might even bring myself to test such a thing (ug, eldar, feel dirty just posting).

-the real chris no less
Quote: 

Would a slight compromise work with the troupe choices,something like 2 troupes per Guardian warhost and 3 troupes per Black Guardian warhost.
This would probably only mean 1 extra troupe option in a 3000 point list but would help if some one wants run with only 2 upgraded warhost's and would mean 7 troupe options with 3 warhost's.
It may even make it worthwhile taking a Warlock titan and running a list similar to one "The Phantom" uses in UK tournaments and not be short of activations.

-dptdexys, one of the guys who was agreeing with your change the loudest
Quote: 

Sounds like a good idea. I can see an overtly militaristic Craftworld like Ulthwe adopting a mechanized infantry formation.

-malakia
Quote: 

-i still think three troupes per warhost is a better list, i tried a falcon heavy black gaurdian formation out and found it just too expensive in a 3k battle, the points would have been better spent on taking another troupe, which would of course have been one too many

This has another downside too. Sometimes ulthwe looks like footslogging horde of guardians, and without at least 3 guardian formations, there is not enough slots to use for a proper army in 3k games. It is not a bad thing as so, the list works still fine, but armies tend to look too much the same between games.

-charad, charad definatly didnt agree, oh what ever happened to charad, nust not like eldar anymore, oh well too bad.

k im done wasting my virtual breath. enjoy, im going back to old lists and rules from the book , sorry if i bothered anyone with my angst. see you all in the modeling section where you dont have to be someone special to have an opinion.

darn it we got this icon, :agree:  and this one,  :disagree:  but they just dont have the finger i need.

i miss sotec  :disagree:




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Chroma
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:23 pm 
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Quote: (illuvitar @ Dec. 29 2009, 17:52 )

darn it we got this icon, :agree:  and this one,  :disagree:  but they just dont have the finger i need.

i miss sotec  :disagree:

Well, while I appreciate your frustration illuvitar, where are your army lists and battle reports testing these variants/proposals?  I've seen a bunch of pondering, but not much pudding.  Why not try some things out?

I asked above:

Quote: 

Could you post, in a new thread, an example or two of the armies you're tying to build if the 2-for-1 restriction wasn't in place?


You're making a proposal, so show me the results  That's part of playtesting/development.  You *can* make these changes, play some games, report your results, and we can go from there.  I've posted armies showing variations with the 2-for-1 limitation and I haven't felt limited when using such list... certainly I've had to make "hard decisions", but, in my mind, that's a *good* thing.

Just saying "I want" or "I think" or "I feel" is not enough.

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illuvitar
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 7:46 pm 
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as ive stated before my games of epis are all pretty much the same i make up 2 army lists  i invite my friend over, he chooses which army to take and i destroy him (last time i tried to discuse this i'll admit i wasnt so blunt) then he looks sad, so we switch army lists and then, i destroy him again. (not saying im the bomb, maybe he just sucks, great guy tho) so i cant see how anyone would think that a valid playtest of, well, anything.

as for the idea that you guys can change a whole bunch of things on a list do some playtests or a lot of playtests and have ANY idea which change made a difference is beyond me, but hey what do i know about experiments, im only a research assistant. Like i said im gonna go away from this, cause im REALLY mad about it and although i dont have anything against you personally chroma, i in fact think your a rather witty guy, i really feel like im being patronized whenever you bother to answer me so im just done. im going back to army lists that where made back before the fall of ulthwe, and this much seems obviuos. the folks who disagree dont change there minds cause you argue your point so well, they just get tired of beating on a brick wall.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Current Eldar Lists
PostPosted: Tue Dec 29, 2009 8:13 pm 
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Quote: (illuvitar @ Dec. 29 2009, 18:46 )

im going back to army lists that where made back before the fall of ulthwe, and this much seems obviuos. the folks who disagree dont change there minds cause you argue your point so well, they just get tired of beating on a brick wall.

Where have I said "no"?  

I've asked for playtests and examples; I've specifically asked for examples of armies you'd make without the 2-for-1 restriction.  I'm honestly failing to see how that is patronizing or infuriating.

And one can make multiple changes and test them, either together, or one at a time, and figure out results, because playtesting isn't *playing* the game, it's *testing* things: You talk with your "opponent" about what you're doing, they give suggestions, you do "take back and try again", you try out different combinations.  It's *not* a competition, but a collaboration between the participants; you're both trying to put things to the test, not win the game... if anything, it's *more* vicious in play, because your "oppenent" is helping you and you're helping them.




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