if you guys do this pylon formation thing at least make it an option, i.e. 1-3 or 2-3 pylons at x points apiece, that way i dont have to stick mine on a shelf or buy more. balance first of course but the fact that your changeing an existing army list with a unit type people either have to convert or buy custom made from er.... someone.... should be considered.

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"god help me, i do love it so" - Patton

It is also hardly gutting (the change is TKd3 to TK1?). Incidentally AA is so bloody precious in Epic you could make it a lot worse and players would still be forced to take it or suffer when playing Orks/Eldar/Marines. I think what miffed people was everyone else gets to bm and maybe crit a lander unless they focus a lot on it, the Necrons get to simply blow them away. It is 'poor' because they are so actively targeted by the enemy.

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Corey, that argument hardly supports what you are saying.  AA TK(1) will not affect the accuracy of the shot, nor will it affect roughly three quarters of the air targets out there.  Since most are the equivalent of DC1, you can't make them any 'more deader' and anything over TK(1) can't strike another aircraft.  One shot, one aircraft down.  For these situations which represent the bulk of Necron flak/aircraft interaction, nothing has changed.

Based on that alone, I can call it a nudge, but wait!  There is still more.

(breaks out the bamboo steamer)

There are still other aircraft that will be affected:
Thunderhawks (DC2, formation of 1)
Landas (DC3, formation of 1)
Vampires (DC2, formation of 1)
Marauder Destroyers (DC2, formation of 2)
Orca (DC2, formation of 1)
Slavebringer (DC2, formation of 1)

If there is something else I've missed, please let me know, but so far that is a total of six aircaft out of dozens of potential targets, and three of these are uncommon at best.  

The purpose of flak is two fold.  One is to destroy targets, obviously.  The other (and most common) is the laying of BMs.  The latter of the two denies aircraft the ability to return the following turn and counts against them in air assaults.  In this case, once again, nothing has changed.  The accuracy of the shot isn't being nerfed so a hit is still a hit, a BM still a BM.

As for the damage wrought by the Pylon, for 1/3 of the time the TK(1) will still be the same.  Then there is the 1in6 critical that can down the craft outright.  So we are somewhere in the neighborhood of 40% of the time the Pylon having the same net outcome as the TKD3, for six potential targets.  

Then you weigh this against the chance that the Pylon might already be broken, the percentage of times a Necron player brings 2 Pylons versus only 1, and the percentage chance of these aircraft actually showing up in the game.  The result is a very small change to an army list that is broadly considered to be a bit overpowered.

That's why I call it a nudge.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Cut the effective firepower againt the one thing they are any real threat to by 1/3, and that is gutting it.

That would be sort of like saying "Ya know, if we just changed the Volcano cannon to a TK(1) instead of a TK(D3), and cut it's range by 25%, it would only be a nudge."

And yes Illuvitar, the formation size should be a range, rather than a fixed number of units.  I think 1-3 is a good number.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Allow formations of Pylons and they really will need the drop to AA TK1, as they'll be spending games unbroken instead of broken for two thirds of the game...

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

soooooo.... can both sides agree to this?
if so how what would the point cost be? i would think not much of a price drop after the first. something like 200 for 1, 150-175 for each additional.

I really can't understand the desire nor see the need to create a multi-unit Pylon formation.  If anything is going to unbalance the unit, it will be that.  Not chipping away at how many pieces it can break a Thunderbolt into.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Though I can understand the desire, I can't see the need to restructure an army list's unit stats soley to satisfy the players of a single army list.

What it boils down to is:  If there is going to be a never-ending push to change the Pylon's stats, then there is NO practical reason, whatsoever, not to just go ahead and make it a worthwhile formation instead of a haphazard after-thought that will be even less effective now than it was in the past.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

It would be better to not even change the stats than make a brand new formation at this late hour; I thought we learned our lesson from the Wraiths.  But the fact that you didn't address any of my points comes off as dismissive.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

a single Pylon isn't worth 200 points at this juncture.

However, My thought to this is having a TK(1) is silly and pointless in anything that isn't a multi shot weapon.

How about this. We keep most of the basic stats as is.

Then we go with this for the weapon:

120cm  MW4+  TK(1)
90cm   AA MW4+

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

What points did you want me to adress specifically?

You want to compare apples and oranges... I'm not interested in engaging in that.  This is about the Pylon.

There is a difference between taking a formation upgrade and giving it it's own formation, and stripping down the basic stats of a unit.

The Pylon was already it's own formation.  Changing this formation is no different than changing the Monolith formation.. only less central to the operation of the army.

You want to change it's core stats: Fine, but if you open that door, I'm going to walk through it.  It's enough of an excuse to change a unit I never liked in the first place.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Why change this part?  

I haven't heard a single complaint about a 200 point MW4+ (TKd3) ground attack for the Pylon.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Why change the ground TK weapon from TKD3 to TK1?

EDIT It seems from your posts you aren't following the proposed change.  The stats mod would ONLY BE changing the AA from TKD3 to TK1.

And as for adding a whole new formation, you have two options.  One is to allow something like 1 to 3 Pylons at X points.  If this is the case, you are still going to end up with single Pylons because of availability of models not to mention playing style.  You've only made the formation more resilient which may make them too powerful and we end up right back where we started.

The other way to fix it is to mandate 2 or more Pylons, in which case you are screwing up Necron players who may not have more than one Pylon.

Either way I see this turning into a Charlie Foxtrot.  

And the "apples to oranges" comment makes no sense.  I'm trying to break down the percentage chance of this proposed AA mod even causing a change in a game.  You might as well have said, "That's neither here nor there" or other useless comment.  I don't think it is too much to ask what part of my last post you think is flawed.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Because if you have 3 of them, that's a bit much.

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Necron Army Champion
"Do not come whining to me because you are weaker than your enemy." - Alexander Corvinus

Wow. I have never seen such a disconnect between the Army Champ and the players.  Typically you see the players pulling in four different directions and the AC not knowing which way is the best.  But this is a different animal entirely.

I believe this won't get worked out.  The reason why is because where the ideas are being generated from: theory vs. actual play.  While many of the proposed stats have not been played specifically, at least the people proposing them have actually played the Necrons with some high level of frequency.  We can say, "Hey, this unit would have done better if FILL IN THE BLANK".  

I don't know how you can feel comfortable with what you are proposing, but I wish you luck on it.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.