I don't know how many on this board play 40K or Apocalypse, but I do. One of the things I will eventually convert up for my 40K marines is a Landraider Ares.

This vehicle is a modified Redeemer, in that it still sports the twin linked assault cannon in the front, a twin linked heavy flamer in each sponson, but instead of transport capacity, it fields the same demolisher gun that is in the Vindicator.

So my question is: Has anyone worked up the stats for a formation of four of these?

If not, does anyone fancy taking a shot at it along with the costs?

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Ok, so that was productive    

Let me take a different approach on this. Please do comment on the stats below:

Landraider Ares

Speed: 25 cm
Armor: 4+
Close Combat: 5+
Fire Fight: 2+

Weapons:

Demolisher Cannon, 30cm, AP3+/AT4+, Ignore cover
Twin Assault Cannon, 30cm, AP4+/AT4+
Multi-Melta, 15cm MW5+, and/or Small Arms, macro-weapon, extra attack (+1)
2 x Twin linked Heavy Flamer sponsors, (Base contact), Ignore cover, Extra attack (+1)

Notes: Reinforced Armour. Thick Rear Armour

Cost: 425 pts for four vehicles

Ok, this is a bit of a cut and paste from the BT Landraider Crusader, the Vindicator, and the standard LR.

I'm throwing this out for discussion, because I am just trying to come up with reasonable stats to playtest with and I don't want something overly out of balance. I'm also not trying to lobby for changes to the SM list at this point, just come up with something that could be tested in a game.

The reason I am interested in this LR variant, is that I will be building one for my 40K army sometime this year, but at the same time, I think I have enough Epic LRs to do a conversion on.

Also, is anyone aware if someone else has worked up stats for the LR Redeemer?

Or has a decision been made to LR variants to chapter specific lists?

Thanx in advance!

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Stats would be:
Landraider Ares
Speed: 25 cm
Armor: 4+
Close Combat: 6+
Fire Fight: 2+

Weapons:

Demolisher Cannon, 30cm, AP3+/AT4+, Ignore cover
Twin Assault Cannon, 30cm, AP4+/AT4+
2 x Twin linked Heavy Flamer sponsors, 15cm, AP3+ Ignore cover
AND (Small Arms) Extra Attack +1 Ignore Cover

Notes: Reinforced Armour.

Cost: 425 pts for four vehicles

With this it gets one 2+ FF-Attack and two 2+ FF-Attacks with Ignore Cover. Pretty nasty but deserved.

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@BL,

Thank you very much for the assist. Did you leave off the MM because it is an upgrade? I put it on because it was also on the LRC in the BT list.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I left it off because it isn't mentioned in the datasheet. Only second because it is an upgrade and that it is the iconic upgrade/equipment for the LR Crusader.

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Maybe it should only get one extra attack for both flamers, otherwise, it could be too good at killing vehicles in firefight. Its flamers should not get better than 1 hellhound each IMO (they have 3+ FF ignore cover).

Or we could go for 2 extra attacks ignore cover, but with a FF of 3+ (3+ would make it about as good as a hellhound squadron) or 4+

That would give a single crusader as much firepower as 5 tactical marines in a firefight, with the staying power of 2.

Edit: damn, sorry for the post necro again. I went there while searching for something I could compare the Stormhammer SHT to.

No problem Galdred,

Seeing as there is a discussion going on regarding the Redeemer, I also dropped back in on this one to refresh my memory.

Cheers,

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

Well I was going to start a thread about converting up an Ares for Epic but I did a search and found this!

*Cast Resurrection on thread*

Land Raider Ares

Speed 25cm
Amour 4+
Close Combat 6+
Fire Fight 3+

Demolisher Cannon 30cm AP3+/AT4+
Twin Link Assault Cannon 30cm AP4+/AT4+
2x Twin Link Heavy Flamer 15cm AP3+ Ignore Cover
AND (Small Arms) (15cm) Extra Attack +1 Ignore Cover

Notes: Reinforced Amour, Thick Rear Amour

0-1 Support Formation of 4 for 500 pts
May add 0-2 to LR formation for 125pts each.
May add 0-2 to any formation that can take Vindicators instead of Vindicators for 125pts each.

What do we think?? Too pricey? I would like to see this in the DA list and in a IF list if one comes out.

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It will never I hope go in a tourney list as aside from how silly it is it completely negates the vindicator.

Re the various suggestions above to date the heavy flamer and multi melta do not provide an extra attack.

General design point - as taken on board I beleive by the EpicUK design team - a FF of 4+ or better combined with reinforced armour just means you would always place your librarian upgrade there instead of with the troops.

The stats though seem fairly self explanatory. It doesn't have the frag launchers so CC6+. Speed 25cm as normal, 4+ reinforced armour, thick rear armour. Guns the demolisher, the twin assault cannon and the two twin heavy flamer which give small arms ignore cover, unless you want to make it +1 EA ignore cover as some weapons get different stats when 'twin'. If you have that you can keep the FF at 5+ as you will now have 3 attacks at 5+ (better than 2+ for any mathematicians out there), same as the crusader in fact.

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So what points cost are we talking about?

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Honda

"Remember Taros? We do"

- 23rd Elysian Drop Regiment

I've heard he makes crap points values

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Considering the current options for where to place a Librarian (Devestators, and maaaaaybe Terminators, but never anywhere else), I don't see that increasing the range of options (as long as they are properly costed) would be particularly damaging to the balance or flavour of the list.

For example, having a squadron of four Land Raiders, with one acting as a Librarian's personal transport, sounds kinda cool to me.

Heck, it might even promote ground-based warfare.  

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Librarians are a good choice for tacticals, they have good staying power to support other assaults and they exploit the choice between MWCC and MWFF the librarian has.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Except Tacticals aren't a good choice for themselves.  


Also, I can't really see myself taking Librarians for Tacticals, even if Tacticals became cheaper.

If I want FF support I take Devestators (similar overall FF, but the formation is cheaper and the librarian better) and if I want a Tactical formation I take either a Supreme Commander and hide near the blitz, or maaaybe a Chaplain if I want it to be conducting Engagements (with Librarians/Devestators in support!).

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