Okay, I've been reviewing the Eldar lists as I try to get all my .pdfs linked back up and, going over Ulthwé, I was hit with a couple of things, especially after re-reading the last Ulthwé version thread.

So, big question: are the "The Path Less Travelled" and the "Ulthwé Black Guardians" limitation "special rules" really needed?

The Aspect Troupe is already constrained by the two-troupes-per-warhost limitation.

As to the "Black Guardians", my reading of the various texts doesn't make them out to be that "rare", just a bit differently organized, so would it upset things to allow them as a "normal" choice without the, sometimes confusing, 1-per-3 limitation?  They still wouldn't get Wraithguard and such, and they're a bit more expensive, so there'd be incentive to take 'regular' Guardian Warhosts.

So, what do people think?

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I think if the Black Guardians are priced appropriately, the 1/3 restriction is not needed.  I think it's a legacy from the original list where the black guardians cost the same and were effectively a "free" upgrade for a certain portion of the formation.  I've always found it cumbersome.

Not sure about the aspects.  I can't recall the way the rule is written, don't have a list handy and the link is broken.

That said, with a 2-per-host allotment of troups, the most aspects you could theoretically have would be roughly 1:1 with the Guardians if you took 2 aspect troupes for every single guardian host.  Realistically, once you have to take other support formations out of a 2-per-host allotment, you're going to have a lot less than that.

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Neal

For me, those are the only changes i would make.

In favour.

I do play the Black Eldar from Ulthwé regularily and I never ran in problems with the limitations on aspect warriors because the 2 per formation on supports stops you taking to many of them. So I am also pro deleting this rule.

For the black guardians. I do think, that with the additional cost and changend options that they have, this limitation is not needed too. But then you would have to keep the one that forces you to somehow mark them from the normal guardians because I think this very fluffy. I think it is perfectly imaginable that an Ulthwé Force consits of only Black Guardians if normal Guardians are not up to the job at hand from a Fluff PoV. And it further helps to differenitiate Ulthwé forces from other Craftworlds.

Long story short: delete them  

Correct.

I would still question the restrictions on the upgrades for Black Guardians, but otherwise the simple changes should be made.

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Only played them twice but I can't imagine that it would unbalance them and streamlining seems appropriate.

While on the subject of Ulthwe', what was the justification for the SR5 again?  I found no real balance issues with the list but I was just wondering what the thought process was for making them SR5 instead of SR4.  It seems the SR4 would apply to them just as well, but maybe I'm missing something.

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author of Syncing Forward and other stories...

It's a dog-eat-dog world, and I've got my Milkbone underwear on.

Basically, Ulthwé, due to its preponderance of Seers, is even more tricky and conniving than other Eldar, putting intricate plans into motion, particularly Eldrad's many cunning stunts.

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

Hehe, that reminds me of an old joke.  

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"I don't believe in destiny or the guiding hand of fate." N. Peart

what a filthy mind

As to the Black Guardians, given their 1+ int, would allowing every Guardian fm to be Black Guardians unbalance the list? For 50pts extra (including the extra Farseer) I wouldn't have any issue with fielding only Black Guardians. Obviously you wouldn't be able to wield all 1+ units, but with a titan, Black Guardians and Aspects you could get at least 1/2 if not more as such.

The restrictions on Wraith construct upgrades would go someway towards balancing this I imagine.

If anyone wants me to (and TRC is willing), I can play test this tomorrow night.

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numquam culum es

That is such a bizare site.

I like Creed is in your bathroom.

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Would the Black Guardians also lose their initiative of 1+ that they had in the previous lists.

If not they would need to keep some sort of restrictions otherwise they could do multiple activation retains without rolling a dice each turn and even do the triple retain without having to roll for it too.

exactly. 'bout to start a game using them with the same 1+ int, let you know how it goes

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numquam culum es

Blast markers...

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"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?

If thats the counter measure I predict the boys in black will mass produce stormserpents, wraithgates etc.

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

PLus what dptdexys said in another post

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x