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Gun Duds.... err drones
Tooninki
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Fri Jun 19, 2009 6:54 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 19 Jun. 2009, 20:24 )

Allow me to once again make the call for the old "half BMs and Combat Resolution for dead drones" rule from the 3.x/FW rules. It neatly solves both sides' concerns.

Seconded! (or expendable back)

(And for future list updates, if drones could use transports without affecting their unit limit, that would be great!)
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The_Real_Chris
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 5:52 am 
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I'm somewhat out of touch Tau wise as haven't played for a while, but my completely un-qualified view would be expendable is better than any special rule.

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Onyx
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 8:43 am 
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Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 20 Jun. 2009, 12:52 )

I'm somewhat out of touch Tau wise as haven't played for a while, but my completely un-qualified view would be
expendable is better than any special rule.

Agreed.




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zombocom
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:17 pm 
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expendable is a special rule...

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Chroma
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:24 pm 
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Quote: (zombocom @ 20 Jun. 2009, 14:17 )

expendable is a special rule...

I think they mean "Tau-specific" special rule, instead of one that is, likely, becoming a "general" special rule.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 2:56 pm 
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Given that we have some people refusing to play with expendable, and others insistent on it coming back, I think a middle-ground is worth considering. And this is coming from someone who generally despises excessive special rules.

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zombocom
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Sat Jun 20, 2009 9:02 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 20 Jun. 2009, 20:20 )

Err... who would be refusing to play with Expendable?

GlynG. I quote from another thread:

This is a big enough issue for me that I flat out will not play with them as disposable in my games even if it were to be re-adopted in future (which I feel strongly should not be the case).

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Dobbsy
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 3:51 am 
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Sorry Glyn, not having a go at you here but, well sad to say, this is a situation where the views of the many outweigh the views of the few (thanks Captain Spock!).... If Glyn chooses not to play that way when the list rules are finally set down that's his choice. The rest of us seem to agree on this rule so I think we should err on the side of general consensus, as pleasing 20 people is better than trying to please one. Especially since the 20 would most likely not use these if expendable isn't restored.
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Mephiston
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 10:51 am 
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I don't think current real life drones compare to the drones depicted in the tau army. Current drones are not part of the front line fighting force, tau drones are and the loss of firepower and sensors should disrupt the force they are attached too until the formation can adjust its tactics / formation to cover the loss.

I'm sure the loss of a real life drone that is providing intel to a force just before it begins a raid would be both detrimental and cause issues for said force.
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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:16 am 
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I agree with Mephiston, the loss of a 'Drone' (of whatever flavour) might not cause panic or fear, but it may very well disrupt the battle plan until its loss can be compensated for... in Epic terms, losing an intel drone (or five drones) might cause a 'blast marker' to be generated.

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GlynG
 Post subject: Gun Duds.... err drones
PostPosted: Mon Jun 22, 2009 11:48 am 
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Hena: Because it doesn't actually help? Their problem is that they don't have saves good enough to survive in suit formations. They would be a liability for any suit formation that has them.

There are any number of tough formations in epic that can have cheaper, less tough and less important units attached to them. The attached units can take hits and bulk up the numbers, but will die easier and cause blast markers. There are pluses and minuses to mixing these different sorts of units together and it's not always brilliant tactically to do so, but it does not necessarily mean something must be wrong with the attaching units and the list that must be fixed if this is the case with certain mixed combinations.

As I described with reference to my W40k gaming above, the addition of Drones to a Battlesuit unit means they can take the hits for them but if the Drones die - as they often do - the Tau battlesuits are concerned and likely often to retreat as Tau do not have that great leadership/morale - Tau should be concerned and/or run  in situations like this and the standard epic rules reflect this well. The list should reflect roughly how the Tau function in W40k and the background and having the extreme morale and brazenness in the face of fire that Disposable provides is something that might be tactically useful and wanted people, rather than something that is actually appropriate or representative.

Dobbsy: The rest of us seem to agree on this rule so I think we should err on the side of general consensus, as pleasing 20 people is better than trying to please one. Especially since the 20 would most likely not use these if expendable isn't restored.
Clearly I am not the only one who thinks Disposable is inappropriate, it is not present in the current list. As I said previously the stats and/or points could be tweaked if they are currently not so great choice.

I am not convinced it is appropriate but could maybe compromise to a special rule that had them cause half blast markers. That adds an extra special rule to the list though and my preferred option would be having them as is with the standard blast marker rules.

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