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Expendable and Blast Markers
Morgan Vening
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:43 pm 
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From 9.2.1

Swarms that include at least one Synapse unit don’t receive Blast
markers for Brood units that are killed; this includes special
effects which create Blast Markers when the unit is targeted.
Unless otherwise noted, expendable units DO count as casualties
for the purposes of assault resolution (EA1.12.7).


There was a discussion in tonight's game with regards artillery vs Expendable. The Chaos player fired 3 Havoc Missiles and the Hellstrike (9BP) at a formation containing some Biovores and a Synapse Node. After centering, one of the additional templates covered two Biovores from a different formation.

The point of difference was how to handle the Blast Markers. I believe that both formations take 3 Blast Markers each (1 for shot at, 2 extra for 9BM). The Tyranid player's point of view was that because only Brood units were being hit by the template, the second formation received no Blast Markers.

So, who's right?

Morgan Vening

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Evil and Chaos
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:46 pm 
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Both formations recieve blast markers.


The attack is targetted at the formation (generating blast markers).

Following that any special effects that generate extra blast markers via the targetting of units (Disrupt) has no effect on Expendable units.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Thu May 28, 2009 2:46 pm 
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Quote: (Morgan Vening @ 28 May 2009, 14:43 )

I believe that both formations take 3 Blast Markers each (1 for shot at, 2 extra for 9BM).

This option is correct.

Those "extra Blast markers" are for the formation (swarm) "coming under fire" and have nothing to do with the units being attacked.

If the weapon had been a disrupt weapon hitting/killing the Biovores, no Blast markers for that effect would've been generated.

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frogbear
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 8:36 am 
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OK

Let me propose another scenario.

Marines can see one biovore unit from a formation, so being gung ho, they fire at it.

Now it is quite clear that they are firing at the unit. Does the formation recieve a blast marker for being shot at? If so, why?

If the brood creature dies, does that cause another blast marker? If so, why?

The way I read the rule is such:

this includes special effects which create Blast Markers when the unit is targeted.


So even looking at the unit and declaring that you will fire is targeting the unit or many units. If they cannot see the synapse, how do the nids not take advantage of this play on words?

Just trying to get to all the angles here people so as it does not come up as a discussion in my next game.

Thanks in advance..




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frogbear
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Fri May 29, 2009 9:15 am 
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mkcontra
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:56 pm 
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So based on this discussion, am I right in understanding the following interaction of expendable and disrupt?

A formation has both a Hive Tyrant and Termagant unit hit (actually hit) by a manticore.  The formation will take: 1 BM for coming under fire and 1 BM for the tyrant being hit by disrupt.

Excepting any other BMs for other reasons that I may have missed, am I correct?

Basically, do expendable units within a mixed formation not generate BMs from disrupt?
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BlackLegion
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 10:58 pm 
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Seems to be that you are correct.

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Chroma
 Post subject: Expendable and Blast Markers
PostPosted: Fri Jun 12, 2009 11:03 pm 
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Quote: (mkcontra @ 12 Jun. 2009, 22:56 )

Basically, do expendable units within a mixed formation not generate BMs from disrupt?

That is correct, as an expendable unit's death would not generate a Blast marker, neither does the disrupt hit... just like Void shields.

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