Login |  Register |  FAQ
   
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 136 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next

NetEA Rules Review '09

 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Allowing mixed flight mission and multiple CAP missions would certainly add without making things more difficult.
Preferably each formation must line up and test.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Good point E&C, but its so messy :)
Still, thats the way to do it, certainly I don't think was intended when the game was designed but a fortuitous situation.

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:05 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Erik M @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:03 )

If you have to push TW and ignore my actual query, please do.

Witty comeback!  *laugh*  

I believe I addressed your point multiple times... but you seem to enjoy moving the objectives...  :laugh:

_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:08 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Mon Jul 04, 2005 4:45 pm
Posts: 8139
Location: London
Quote: (Ginger @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:02 )

How so? Player "A" flies on a combined bomber and escort formation, then player "B" brings in his CAP formation.

Granted that it does not permit more than two formations as currently, but there are usually so few air formations anyway that this is no great hardship at least up to 5000 points and probably higher.

Didn't it say stuff like unit may make x turns and had a lot more words?

_________________
If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:09 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri May 05, 2006 2:57 am
Posts: 20887
Location: Harrogate, Yorkshire
Quote: (The_Real_Chris @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:05 )

Good point E&C, but its so messy :)
Still, thats the way to do it, certainly I don't think was intended when the game was designed but a fortuitous situation.

Indeed it wasn't really intended when the rules were designed, but it clearly works, and so an actual rules change isn't required.

_________________
Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:11 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Back to basics then...

I don't know about you fellas, but I play Epic (and 6mm in general) 'cause the possibility to actually manoeuvre my forces and have a strategic feel to it.
With the current movement rules I have a hard time seeing this happening.
No, this is NOT about the absurd "n individual moves" of double and march.
This is about being able to act and counter-act on the battlefield. And perhaps also adjusting some shooting modifications.

I don't really mind Double, more than it's the no-brainer move order of EA with only a -1 toHit.

I also don't really mind March, more than it's the no-brainer jump ahead into enemy territory order of EA with no restrictions at all as to where your soldiers feel comfy with putting up their feet and rest while transported in a seriously vulnerable way.

Would these suggestions offend you Gents?
Double - either no shooting or -2 toHit.
March - no capture or contesting of objectives and no marching within 60cm of any enemy unit.

With these changes the battlefield will be more open and each order more of a thing to ponder. Battles will (hopefully) be longer than three rounds of mad dashing towards objectives too.


Apparently this "...no capture or contesting of objectives..." has been blown out of proportion. But it's merely a side-effect of making March more sensible, just as the "air-transport" rule suggested by Ginger would.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:20 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2005 7:20 pm
Posts: 5483
Location: London, UK
Quote: (Erik M @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:03 )

If you have to push TW and ignore my actual query, please do.

We seem to have a number of simultaneous debates going here which is a little confusing. However, your concern is that there is not enough manoeuvering for tactical positions while there is a significant amount of strategic manoeuvering. Your solution seems to be to reduce the amount that a given formation can move, but this is playing with the games time system (allowing more shooting at the formation in a given time)

Part of the problem that you perceive is evidently in the core game mechanics, where people pass the initiative back-and-forth like Tic-Tac-toe, trying to get the opponent to commit something before you move something significant in reply. Unfortunately this is not something that can be changed as it affects the entire system.

I suspect that there are other ways of improving the tactical / strategic game; eg adding more terrain to the table, especially roads, bridges, rivers and built-up areas. Most new-commers to the game do not realise that the table really needs to be 30%-40% covered in terrain of some form or another precisely to encourage maneouver, so perhaps we need to emphasise this more. What do you think?

_________________
"Play up and play the game"

Vitai lampada
Sir Hemry Newbolt


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 4:25 pm 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Jun 24, 2005 3:06 pm
Posts: 9684
Location: Montréal, QC, Canada
Quote: (Erik M @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:11 )

Apparently this "...no capture or contesting of objectives..." has been blown out of proportion. But it's merely a side-effect of making March more sensible, just as the "air-transport" rule suggested by Ginger would.

Erik M, you still seem to be missing the point here: "Objectives" *ONLY* exist in the Tournament Scenario, so changing a "core rule" such as March, to have a restriction that only applies in a single scenario doesn't make March "more sensible".

What you're actually asking for is a change in the Tournament Scenario and limits on how objectives are captured/contested within it.




_________________
"EPIC: Total War" Lead Developer

Now living in Boston... any EPIC players want to meet up?


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 7:15 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Sat Aug 02, 2008 3:22 pm
Posts: 5682
Location: Australia
Quote: (Chroma @ 01 Jun. 2009, 16:25 )

a change in the Tournament Scenario and limits on how objectives are captured/contested within it.

This would really assist armies that are good at shooting to just sit back and shoot - something I would hope to avoid.

I would rather the scenario stay the way it is. Knowing that a unit can triple move to take an objective is far more strategic in my view as you need to find ways to stop it. Otherwise you just sit back, form your lines of fire, and force an enemy to move through areas on your terms. That is too 40K for my liking.

_________________
Frogbear is responsible for...
Previous World Eaters
Previous Emperor's Children
Previous Death Guard
Previous Imperial Fists
Previous Chaos Squats


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:07 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Ginger ~ "...Your solution seems to be to reduce the amount that a given formation can move, but this is playing with the games time system (allowing more shooting at the formation in a given time)..."
At first that was my "solution". But as I wrote this query I realised what I was about to propose wouldn't work (to big a change). So I had a second look at what bothered me and found that with some limitations it could work out quite well.
So I got March to be a strategic move and not the tactical mad and suicidal dash for victory condition it is today. And then limiting effectiveness of shooting when at Double makes it less of a standard move. Ie you have to actually choose between moving and shooting.

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:23 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
And another strangeness queried:

Fleeing towards the enemy.
How sensible is that?
How about "not moving closer to enemy units or enemy lines"?

_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:30 am 
Hybrid
Hybrid

Joined: Wed Sep 28, 2005 8:35 am
Posts: 4311
Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 09:23 )

And another strangeness queried:

Fleeing towards the enemy.
How sensible is that?
How about "not moving closer to enemy units or enemy lines"?

Isn't this already addressed?
- broken units die within 15cm of enemy
- broken fearless cannot enter another enemy ZoC
- units within 30cm of enemy get -1 to rally

So, if you want to rally, flee away from enemy.

_________________
www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:57 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Being "broken" is not the same as fleeing. Moving whiel broken just represents being disorganised, not panicked fleeing. That is represented by hackdown hits after an assault, and kills due to BMs when broken.

_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 9:59 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother

Joined: Thu May 22, 2008 8:41 pm
Posts: 1480
Location: Gothenburg,Sweden
Quote: (Steve54 @ 02 Jun. 2009, 10:30 )

Isn't this already addressed?
- broken units die within 15cm of enemy
- broken fearless cannot enter another enemy ZoC
- units within 30cm of enemy get -1 to rally

So, if you want to rally, flee away from enemy.

Not at all, with a potential victorious movement of up to 105cm that -1 @ 30cm isn't much of a hinderance. And there's usually lots of room to hide away. And then hope to rally and make a dash.

zombo ~ Your perception of the psychology a beaten down unit has is perhaps a bit to heroic. If you're beaten, then you are. You're not manoeuvring to make a strike "when we feel more battle ready".




_________________
It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.
- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
 Post subject: NetEA Rules Review '09
PostPosted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 10:03 am 
Brood Brother
Brood Brother
User avatar

Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2007 1:49 am
Posts: 5569
Quote: (Erik M @ 02 Jun. 2009, 09:07 )

So I got March to be a strategic move and not the tactical mad and suicidal dash for victory condition it is today. And then limiting effectiveness of shooting when at Double makes it less of a standard move. Ie you have to actually choose between moving and shooting.

I don't know how you play, but when I play I proably use single moves more often than doubles; that -1 to hit makes a huge difference. It halves the effective AP fire of marines or guard for example. When doubling I rarely expect to do more than lay a BM.

There's an elegance in the sustain/single/double/march mechanics.

There is a possible case for disallowing objective capture after marching however, I'll agree there.

And yes, broken DOES represent disorganisation rather than fleeing. Misinterpretation here is common, and leads to confusion over why you have so much control when broken. I believe when Epic was translated into other languages they noted this and renamed the rule to local equivilents of "disorganised".




_________________
http://www.troublemakergames.co.uk/
Epic: Hive Development Thread


Top
 Profile Send private message  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 136 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1 ... 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10  Next


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 9 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  


Powered by phpBB ® Forum Software © phpBB Group
CoDFaction Style by Daniel St. Jules of Gamexe.net