Okay guys, over to you...

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I think it's all a bit underwhelming, the rulebook SM list, errata and rule ammendments doc on here is better.

I'll be painting my SM up as Dark Angels but I will not use the DA list, I'll use a standard SM list using the rules combination above.

It's as if someone has a vague idea of the DA and just wants to make them different. Change in Dev's is just to be different. The Ravenwing/Deathwing is well done though.

Where exactly did the "No allies" rule come from, it's a twisted version of the old 40k rules. The 40k rule it's based on is that DA could not ally with Xenos, only other SM, IG, and agents and later on removing agents and abhumans (Ogryns/Ratlings) as ally options. Quite simply the DA do work with IG, SM, Navy and Titan Legions so why remove them as options.

Anyone mentioned the Strike Cruiser change yet?

You can swop out Drop Pods, Rhinos, foot.
It's an added deployment method, and so added flexibility, to the Space Marine list.

To this end, I can see a Strike Cruiser being a very common Epic UK sight just for the ability to Drop Pod when needed.

Aside from this not much leaps out as interesting or radically different. But then Red and Green Marines do not have enough different from Codex Marines to warrant a completely new Epic Codex- as evidenced by people in this thread complaining about units for unit's sake in the DA list, etc.

If Epic UK (and anyone else writing BA/DA) didn't overexagerrate the tiny few differences BA/DA have over Codex then it wouldn't justify a new Codex (because Death Company are present at every battle...the BA wouldn't cease to be after a few dozen battles...)

Space Wolves have far more claim to justify a new Codex. BT and White Scars have worth to do so.

This potential rules change was deeply debated on TacComms when it was first raised as a possibility by (I think) Ginger.

It was deplored as 'gamey' by the majority.

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The rhino/drop pod at deployment time has been part of the tournament rules at 80% of uk tournaments for over a year and a half. I don't remember it being used in anger!

For the costing of the assault formation you have to factor in how it is used - as it is larger only 1 can fit in a thawk

Baal - does not the warlock titan have this - not to mention the Salamander command in your minervans?

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Bolter Razorback - is used a lot as it is - due to its usefulness against other scouts or OW against teleports

Dreads - armor increase was considered, but its problem is speed slowing down the formation - would going to 3+ have made it more use, probably not. its rare to have a tourney with out dreads used - just not by everybody


Autocannnon preds - would even making them FF2 have made them worthwhile? - no because they are hamstrung by there weapons load

Marauders - would an extra BM make a huge difference?

Overall look - we weren't aiming for something like raiders/siege just a usable set of lists to provide more choice at tournaments.

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Why is slow firing more fiddly on a dev formation than manticores or warhounds, surely its just placing a reload counter next to them?

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Neophytes - heavy bolters is a mistake we have missed

Thawk transporter - what confusion is there over hit allocation?

Overall list - we aimed for small changes with the list - different restrictions, couple of new units, couple removed. I don't see how having multiple types of thawk or veteran marines is more flavourful

Power - we were under the impression it was probably the weakest of the lists, what makes it overpowered?

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I'm not the army champion for the Minervans anymore, and several changes were made against my advice with the Minervans before publication by TRC which powered up the list significantly.

Also, I may be wrong. :-)

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I've never seen them fielded personally.

Dreads - armor increase was considered, but its problem is speed slowing down the formation - would going to 3+ have made it more use, probably not. its rare to have a tourney with out dreads used - just not by everybody

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Because there's so darned many of them (All of which have to be tracked individually of course), and wherever possible Epic's design ethos attempts to avoid serious bookkeeping on anything smaller than a War Engine.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I spoke poorly, it's not confusing, but it is poorly/incompletely worded.

Overall list - we aimed for small changes with the list - different restrictions, couple of new units, couple removed. I don't see how having multiple types of thawk or veteran marines is more flavourful

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How has the transporter been used? (ours is worse in FF) In my experience without warhounds or thawk variants to suppress flak then its very risky as you have to brave the flak with 5+RA

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www.epic-uk.co.uk
NetEA NetERC Human Lists Chair
NetEA Chaos + Black Legion Champion