No they didn't. It didn't exist in Tau list when FW did theirs. It was added after 4.0 at which point FW did their fork of the list. For list of things that were changed see below.
http://orde.org.uk/gaming/forgeworld-ta ... -army-list

Could you please read the v4.0 list so that you know what was in the list that FW used as base .
http://orde.org.uk/gaming/tau/tauv4.0.pdf

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One other thing, Railgun submunitions are self guiding...
Why wouldn't GM's be self guiding aswell? This would obviously mean they could be fired without a Markerlight but would be more accurate with a Markerlit target (ie no need to change the present rules for GM's).

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I rest my case on that front.

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Which is why i'm suggesting a few extra units get markerlights, most especially Fire Warriors. I've playtested this extensively, and it works a lot better than the current system, and better represents the background.

And yes, knocking out the MLs should be devestating to the Tau.

The rest of the Manta's arsenal consists of prow-mounted launch ports for up to 10 Seeker missiles. These can be controlled by the crew, or by other Markerlight operators on the ground."

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

The 4+RA is about playability/survivability. If the Armour save is reduced to 5+RA (and I have no problem with that at all), the DC may need to increase a notch or the Manta critical might need to be slightly less destructive than the Reaver/Warlord one.

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Or they have their own Manta mounted markerlight... *laugh*

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Guys, I've already stated that the critical should be more drastic... Why keep on about it?

I've already stated that I have no problem with 5+RA...Why keep on about it?

Firewarriors with ML = no need for Pathfinders, Stealthsuits etc. It removes a lot of formations that no one is saying should be removed. If FireWarriors want ML's then thay add the Pathfinder upgrade. No need for any change there.

Which suggests the Manta GMs are the exception rather than the rule.

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The line I quoted is very clear on this point. It talks about GMs in general and is referring to those on any vehicle.  The manta line is discussing the GMs on the manta, and goes out of its way to specify that in this case they can be fired by the crew.

I'm sorry, but the unguided firing mode is just not a representative of the way GMs (other than possibly those on the Manta) work in the background. It's just wrong, and having it in the list makes it not a Tau list in my opinion.

If we don't make the list match the background then it's not a Tau list, it's just something we made up. I have no interest in playing with or against such a list.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

zombo - maybe THIS thread is more important than individuals demands on what they will or will not play against.

For the record, I did vote for Both should be kept in balance but the obvious result is that rules (ie playability) is more important than fluff to MOST players.
That must be respected.

Will you really not play with or against the Tau if you don't get your way?

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My regular Tau opponent is of the same mindset as me, and for the last few months we've been playing or own version of the list. That's how disenfranchised we are with the current Tau list.

I have no interest in playing against Tau without some pretty hefty changes, most especially the GM/ML one. For me this is the absolute biggy, the most important change to improve the feel and background adherence of the list. To me it's the number one issue with the list, worse than the overgunned moray and right up there with the sentry turrets.

As to the thread you mention, I actually want this change more for gameplay/rules purposes than background, it just happens that the background is on my side in this one. Note that I don't intend this as a Nerf to the list; I want other changes to balance it out (longer range GMs, more MLs, maybe ever better to hit values). Overall the power level of GM units isn't changed much, just the gameplay style.

Your point about taking out all the MLs to cripple the GM units doesn't quite work either, since the vehicles themselves will almost all have MLs. All you have to do it place one of them close and all the rest in the army can now fire again.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

So if you don't get your recommendations, you and your fellow Tau player are going to keep playing your version anyway.

My regular opponent doesn't get what all the fuss is about with the present rules. He is more than happy to keep playing against the current list and thinks changes to the Support Craft, range reductions, ML changes are un-needed nerfs.

Everyone is I.

The solution is in between us all not at any one persons perspective.

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Which is of course a personal opinion.  

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No, if we don't get this recommendation passed we'll keep playing our own list. Just about everything else could go one way or the other except this. That's how strongly we feel about it.

If you want to carry on playing with the current rules that's fine, go ahead. It's reached the stage for me that I flat out refuse to play against the current list. I don't enjoy playing against the current list, so why should I? You're trying to paint me as the bad guy for not wanting to play against it, but why should I waste my time on games I know from experience I won't enjoy?

One of my armies is Necrons, and for a long time they were hugely overpowered. Unsurprisingly, a lot of my local players stopped wanting to play against them, as it had stopped being fun. Luckily, the Necron list has changed in such a way that it's not so overpowered any more, so it became more fun to play against.

The Tau list is currently still at the stage where it's not fun, not just because it's overpowered, but because it encourages a boring playstyle and is unrepresentitive of the background.

I play Epic to simulate large battles in the 40k universe, and to have fun. Currently the Tau list doesn't fulfill either of these aims.

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Epic: Hive Development Thread

OK, CS, I think it's time for a nudge on what you want us to test.  looks like everyone's set down their grudgestones and isn't willing to budge again.

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