A classic example that may be vaguely familiar is the decline from Mycenaean Palace society, with paved roads, chariot armies, centralised regional states with strong monarchies, mountain fastnesses and vast stockpiles (and writing!) in southern Greece. Between 1200 and 1050 BC this descended into a 'dark ages'  of fishing villages, crap pottery, and illiteracy. Greece doesnt rise out of this till the 7th century BC in the process of growth that leads to the more familiar classical period. A huge amount of learning and technology was lost there, with the only vague memories of the period being contained in the Troy epic cycle.

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They are free, yes, but not entirely free; for they have a master, and that master is Law.

Thats certainly how I see it too.

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They are free, yes, but not entirely free; for they have a master, and that master is Law.

Yeah, but those are all local examples. The technology level of the entire planet never actually dropped. Extending the idea to cover all human populations on every planet colonized is what is far fetched, both in the case of MW and in the case of 40k.

At least with 40k, you have such a huge gulf of time between now and then (comparable to 7-8 times the entire record of human history) that it's a bit more plausible.

In any case, I've gone off topic, my bad.

Mate, as a classically trained historian and arcaeologist I would stick well clear of using historical arguaments in relation to this discussion. For the most part as such discussions tend to be extremely Euro-centric. For example your example of the "Barbarians" destroying Roman knowledge and abandoning "the path of enlightenment in a frenzy of destruction" as many 19th century historians would say is not, strictly speaking true. The Islamic world kept much Roman and Greek knowledge alive. Knowledge is not often lost it tends to be reinterpreted and recycled. Moreover I think it would be well worth pointing out at this juncture that we are discussing a GAME with an INVENTED "HISTORY". Sometimes I think that we as a community can take fluff a bit too far as in this case or discussing the physics of skimmer on skimmer combat. How does this enable us to build a more balanced and fun epic tau list? Realism has no place in wargaming.

Aye watch out, Jstr is actually a trained Indiana Jones.

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Currently doing a plastic scenery kickstarter

I second part of what Lord Inquisitor said, genetic science and warp science are far more advanced in the Imperium. I would also include bionic science in that list, replacing lots of body parts is common, and at least officers and elite troops get bionics that are superior to the parts they are replacing, while the Tau seem to have them available only for officers.
And the Space Marines prove that they also have advanced fighting suits which are as powerful and reliable as those of the Tau, just designed with a different philosophy and other tactics in mind.

Combined with the leftovers of the Dark Age of Technology the Tau cannot be called technological superior to the Imperium, but perhaps equal to. If they will be superior in the future is another topic.

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"Your limbs are mighty. Let them smite the foes of our Emperor."

Well I can certainly agree on almost all of what Jstr19 says ... Especially the part about "invented history" ... The discussion here where we talk about our "real" history and how it compares to a "made up" history is just an exercise "for the fun of it" really, IMO.  However, I do believe that Sci-fi wargaming should have a modicum of "realism". As I have said many times before on this site. Of course my expertise is in actual military operations, skills, weapons, tactics, etc., and a working  knowledge of military history. So we always played Epic with modified rules to more "accurately" portray a sort of hi-tech version of WWII with some modern concepts and sci-fi machinations added to the mix.  Which we find enjoyable.   We see Epic as a Sci-fi Combined Arms Ground Combat game. And that being said, we see the Tau as more comparable to a modern force and the rest as Hi-Tech WWII save for the Eldar who are somewhere in between ...

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

One advantage the Tau have is that they actually employ the scientific method.  But whether or not this matters can really only be assessed after the fact.  There's no reason that even with the scientific method, things can't plateau for centuries between major breakthroughs.  In the same way, a Tech Magos could discover an STC from the golden age that massively advances Imperial technology, even with their ceremonial approach.

One of things about the 41st millenium though, is that stagnation is the word of the day.  Even the largest plot elements are comparatively meaningless in the grand scheme of the galaxy.  Things don't change.  The background story is designed to provide a situation for the game.  If we were to fast word enough that something major has changed for the Tau, it could just as well be that the Tyranids eat them, the Orks shatter their empire as them continuing to innovate and expand.

If they can keep themselves from hitting technological plateaus (perhaps by capturing Imperial and Eldar technology to analyze), I'd like to think the scientific method would win out over a ceremonial approach to technology over time.  Nothing is in a vaccuum though.  You never know what social and military factors will spawn what innovations.

Does it actually makes sense that Imperium's finest run into the enemy horde with a powerfist and chainsword? Last time humanity did that was in WWI.

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Light at the Horizon.

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http://www.tacticalwargames.net/taccmd/viewtopic.php?f=38&t=19176

You must have watched the Hollywood version!

Anyway, it was the navy what won it

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'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

No it makes no sense ... but Epic is based on 40K and the 40K fluff is IMO ... very goofy in most cases.  It is completely illogical to use ranged weapons like a Bolter as a club(save for most rare circumstanses...). So we not only modified the rules to suit our predilection for Modern Combined Arms, but our force employment reflects that also ...    

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

L4, I refer back to my earlier statement...  
With humans anything goes, if religion is mixed into it.  

Fair enough TRC...
Just look at Bus...    

Anyhow, we do have "dark ages" yes. Right now we have the islamic dark age, we had the pol pot dark age a few decades ago.
All of Albania is a dark age area, right?
Etc etc etc. One could even argue that America is one (with billboards for Pro Choice and the Guatanamo base, among other things)...    

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641

And yes, back to the Tau. Religion and politics being things to confound, confuse and cause arguement all day long, plus Eric might be best if you look at your post above and decide if you need all of it to make your point.

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If using E-Bay use this link to support Tac Com!
'Abolish red trousers?! Never! Red trousers are France!' – Eugene Etienne, War Minister, 1913
"Gentlemen, we may not make history tomorrow, but we shall certainly change the geography."
General Plumer, 191x

Well if you say the Humans are held back by the Emporer and is cronies, that's why chainwords, etc. are still used ... that makes some sense ...  But on my gaming board ... we strongly believe in ranged weapons, combined arms, Air-Land Battle doctrine and even just the plain old Blitzkrieg !      And the Tau with their Grav/GEV AFVs, Railguns, smart missiles, heavily relying on CAS/Strike/Support Aircraft, etc. are certainly more like a modern 21st Century army.  Go Tau !

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Legion 4 "Cry Havoc, and let slip the Dogs of War !" ... "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf."

That's strategy and tactics L4, not tech level.

Almost all warfare is still based on Sun Tze and Calusewitz, from "War of the Roses" played by children to Hive Fleet Kraken in the universe of The Emperor.
But the tech level of those two are quite different!
(Atleast I hope so?!?!?)

To conclude:
The Imperium has a higher degree of tech but no understand. Thus no production, only detoriating replication.
The Tau has less technology but full understanding of it. Thus developing and producing better stuff all the time.

Guess who's ahead in the game?  

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It would be nice to get lightspeed,
so far we can only reach slight speed.- Erik M
092b85658e746a91d343e53509d357744e56f641