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Loads a activations Tau vs Guard

 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 2:18 pm 
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From last week, here's a short batrep.

So brothers mate comes round, he used to play epic but stopped for a variety of reasons a year back. He was a marine and ork player and as the bro is running late, I convince him to have a go with this using Guard – makes sense surely? :)

Tau’sers
250 Crisis Team
100 SC
075 Drones
200 Firewarrior 1
200 Firewarrior 2
200 Firewarrior 3
200 Firewarrior 4
200 Firewarrior 5
075 Drone 1
075 Drone 2
075 Drone 3
075 Drone 4
075 Drone 5
075 Drone 6
075 Drone 7
075 Drone 8
075 Drone 9
075 Drone 10
075 Drone 11
100 Orca 1
100 Orca 2
100 Orca 3
100 Orca 4
100 Orca 5
100 Orca 6
150 Tigershark

Steel Legion
650 Leman Russ Company
050 Hydra
500 SC mechanised
050 Hydra
250 Infantry Company
100 Fire support
300 Vultures
250 Manticore Battery
200 Deathstrikes
150 Hydra Battery
150 Roughriders
100 Sentinels
150 Thunderbolt

Well I was banned from touching anything electronic over the weekend so didn’t get to draw pretty pictures.

Terrain was 3 woods, 5 city sectors, 4 hills on a table slightly smaller than 4 foot across, so deployment areas were reduced. This made deployment extremely tricky for the Tau, who were doing their best not to get multiple formations manticored.

To that end I stuck a formation of firewarriors and the BTS in orca. The map shows the deployment of important stuff. My base edge was stuffed full of 11 formations of drones, mostly facing off against the enemy, though two on the far side with the FW.

Turn 1
Tau init
Well, making the guard go first would be too cruel so I thought I’d get rid of an orca and send it to clip a Hydra which is duly destroyed, after doing a point of damage on me.
Guard then cap the t bolts, using the re-roll.
Drones on the right zap forward into a town area.
Manticores um and ah and eventually open up with 4 bp on some FW, doing a fair bit of damage and almost breaking the formation, whilst bm’ing another.
Severely damaged firewarriors try to rally and break themselves.
Tanks double forward and annihilate some drones.
Damaged FW marshal and move forward.
Deathstrikes overwatch.
More drones follow on the right.
Infantry reset overwatch.
Firewarriors re-set overwatch.
Roughriders move up behind town on right.
Orca strafes the LR, killing a tank.
Sentinels move up behind town getting under Hydra flak cover.
Orca tries to activate but fails.
Vultures bomb over and wipe out 3 drones on the right.
Firewarriors march forward on the right.
SC gets into the woods (poor thing decided not to go to the right as the objectives were not over there).
Orca goes forward and shoots the russ.
Drones double up and bm the russ.
Repeat after a fail.
Tigershark move up. Guard realises I’ve formed a neat little triangle with two Orca and a Tigershark, so the landing will be tricky to stop, so caps the TS. Junking and poor fire is enough to survive the Hydra and Tbolt fire, who dodge the return fire without problems.
Drones double up and bm the russ.
Repeat.
Orca comes in and lands, deploying its men partly into the town before dying to a deathstrike. The Crisis destroy two tanks and break the formation which retreats over to the SC company.
Next Orca activates with re-roll and wipes out the broken hydra, keeping the firewarriors onboard.
Drones fail to activate (in all cases these things move forward when failing).
Drones go forward and manage to get one in range of a tank.
Last lot of drones manage to kill an infantryman.
Tanks fail to rally and retreat into woods, losing one to dangerous terrain. Everything else rallies, most bm’s cleared.

Turn 2
Tau init
Orca on right go after the Vultures and with the drones manage to break them.
SC manoeuvres and almost wipes out all but two of the crisis, who retreat over the hills and far away.
Retain with deathstrike fails and the crisis live for now.
Tigershark with a re-roll deals with the manticores.
Retaining drones kill another infantry man in another crossfire.
Roughriders impact on the 4 drone formation on the right, wiping it out though losing a horse to the alleys.
Vengeful Tbolts set cap with a re-roll.
Sentinels get hit in a crossfire, lose a man and break back towards the blitz.
At this point I stopped taking notes and the rest of the turn is pretty much a large crossfire on the SC and leman russ with drones all over the place and Orca (losing the one filled with firewarriors) hitting the rear lines and broken vultures. At the end the SC is broken and fleeing, the tanks with only the commissar vanquisher left, who of course rallies. And bizarrely I forgot to activate the FW on the right!
With my own objectives secured the towel was thrown in. We rolled for the next turn and the guard won, with the right hand side firewarriors due to get roughridered, but the left was lost and the lightning fast drones all over the place, with the air force marauding around with only the thunderbolts to stop them (who again I might add did a great job, given the circumstances).
Oh a major factor as well was the brother coming back and repeatable asking was it time to go :)

The Guard army wasn’t ideal, but was a ‘typical’ force. Maybe some SHT’s instead of the infantry would have made it tougher, but would have cost another activation and left little to hold ground with.

So what do you think?

Some thoughts from my opponent.

I haven’t played guard in ages Chris.
Those drones are nasty, why can’t they be 6 strong, 150 points and not expandable?
Its still a silly game.

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:20 pm 
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Okay, I can't help myself... Hena, this is 26 activations.  I distinctly remember you freaking out over the Dark Eldar possibly having 20 activations in a 3000 point game.  I am shocked you haven't said anything about the activation count here.  Illuminate me, please.

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 3:53 pm 
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Should only be 24 :)

Would drone change make much difference? Not against this army. I would have lost a couple of squadrons to manticore fire rather than mess up the firewarriors. Still a lot of the effectiveness came from the air power cleaning up the support formations, I wonder how things would have gone with just firewarriors, drones and tigersharks?

Say something like
SC 425
6 FW 1200
14 Drones 1050
2 TS/'cuda
Tis actually less activations!

Do little by themselves? They have a speed of 30, are infantry and have a nasty anti infantry attack that with that number can swarm, crossfire and sustain on enemy infantry ripping them apart. If nothing else 75 points for a bm at 75cm, jumping over intervening terrain is fine with me!




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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:17 pm 
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Chris,

Do you think that limiting drone formations to a maximum of 1 per core formation would help on this?

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 4:32 pm 
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Well the above army would be

250 Crisis Team
100 SC
075 Drones
200 Firewarrior 1
200 Firewarrior 2
200 Firewarrior 3
200 Firewarrior 4
200 Firewarrior 5
075 Drone 1
075 Drone 2
075 Drone 3
075 Drone 4
075 Drone 5
075 Drone 6
100 Orca 1
100 Orca 2
100 Orca 3
100 Orca 4
100 Orca 5
100 Orca 6
150 Tigershark

With 375 left over, of which 250 could go on more aircraft (get what, 1 activation and some barracuda? Drops 3 activations from the army).

Much difference? Enough? Could you win against an army no matter how tuned down, or would you be looking for a winning draw?

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 6:45 pm 
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Why not just make drones a upgrade and not an independent formation? To me this is a better route than limiting them. There are enough limitations in the tau list with 2 for 1 core and special as well as 1 or 1 FW's and auxillaries. Also does in make sense in terms of fluff for large Drone wings opperating many miles from Tau units. Don't they need a controller.


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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:16 pm 
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Quote: (Hena @ 23 Sep. 2008, 15:14 )

The expendable should only work when there is non expendable units in formation. Also I would drop the save of Drone to 6+. That should balance it nicely.

Because what the Tau really need is extra conditions added to their special rules?  :whistle:

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 7:32 pm 
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Dropping independent drones would prevent much of this abuse and solve the bm-ignoring problem that they currently have.

Upping Orca cost would fix the other half.


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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Tue Sep 23, 2008 9:01 pm 
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Why do Orcas need a points increase?


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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 12:27 am 
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Because cheap tough bm laying bombers are nasty in Epic in large numbers :)

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 1:56 am 
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I'll agree with the making Drones an upgrade only as a solution to this spamming list. It keeps the Drones doing what they're supposed to do - protect more valuable units and ceratinly cuts down on the spamming activations.

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 Post subject: Loads a activations Tau vs Guard
PostPosted: Wed Sep 24, 2008 2:35 am 
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For the Orca issue, why not go to the 'Dedicated Transport' mechanic:  Orcas must be bought as an upgrade for a formation.  If a formation has Devilfish, it can't take an Orca.

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