They had the Melta Guns removed from their stats a long time ago due to balance issues so I think that given that the stats are the same as the Bolt Pistol/Chain Sword stats from 3.3 that we change the Melta Weapon entry in the Raptors back to Bolt Pistols so people don't wonder why they don't have an MW attack any more

Please note, I am just talking about cleaning up the Raptor stat box and not wanting to fuss with the stats or change them in any way.

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Any reason the meltagun can't just be a firefight weapon?

We can do that but it does beg the question why they have FF4+ if all they have is bolt pistols.

Maybe they are good with them :-) The old version 3.3 stats were the same as they are now but with Bolt Pistols.

My problem is that a Melta Weapon should have an MW attack. It looks odd to have a weapon like that with no additional effects.

The old 40K CSM lists used to let you kit the Raptors out with a lot of Melta Weapons and now you can only have one per formation. The formation originally was given them to help beef them up and differentiate them from Bikers but it proved to be a little too much

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Drop their FF down to 5+ to match this?

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For the next round of changes perhaps (if there needs to be one), anything you do to raptors should I hope balance them as an alternative to bikes and hopefully drop the 0-1 in some way. Saying that I see it won't be easy as Marines and bikes as there the thunderhawk is a better option for the assault marines int he air and bikes for on the ground.

In the CSM list bikes and raptors fill the same slot. Any way of having some clear blue water as it were between them?

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They are quite similar with the only real exception being the Jump Packs which make it easier to move in and around terrain but they really are almost the same darned thing.

Something to differentiate them would indeed be great but aside from weapon differences I am at a bit of a loss as to what to suggest.

Beyond the scope of this topic though :-)

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Forgot to reply to this.

It can be but doesn't it seem odd that it isn't an MW weapon?

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Guns don't break formations. Blast Markers break formations.

Don't raptor squads in 40k have a maximum of two special weapons? In which case, I'd translate that to Epic as a high firefight value, as opposed to macro weapon, which would be reserved for squads armed with nothing but meltas, like fire dragons for example. Remember, even normal marine and chaos marine squads often have one special weapon.

I don't see a real problem with Bikes and Raptors having such similar stats.

Jump Packs is better than Mounted, about even since Bikes get +5cm movement.

If they need a difference Bikers can get a shooting attack since they carry a wall of Combi-bolters and I believe can have meltas.

Combi-bolters 15cm AP5+ ?

Then Give Raptors Scouts, the CSM could use another scout.

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Raptors == Assault Marines

Why so big difference in stats?

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Are they both identical oh those out there with the codex?

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The main difference is assault marines are restricted to pistols and raptors have access to two meltaguns/plasmaguns/flamers per squad. I'd say that could be represented as FF 4+ in Epic terms. So not just a single weapon, in which case I'd agree with it making no difference.

IIRC they both can have two assault weapons, but unfortunately I dont have both codexes with me so I shall check that when I get home.

EDIT: I checked from my excel table and assault marines could get 2 plasmapistol or 2 flamer and raptors can have 2 melta or plasmagun (or flamer). So FF4+ is good.

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They have flamer options nowadays? My mistake on that one, assumed they'd have the same options as in the Blood Angels codex. Not that it's surprising, regular marines do pretty much everything better due to having a newer codex.